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F-18 crash San Diego

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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59



pretty poor reporting -- how loud was it, did it smell bad -- but more than a few people had a pretty shitty day.


Dec 8 2008 7:20PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
hmmm it will be interesting to find out a reason behind this crash... hopefully no one was hurt...
Dec 8 2008 7:27PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
^ 2 dead on the ground, 2 more missing i believe
Dec 8 2008 7:27PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
sounds like 2 dead 2 still missing: a grandmother, mother and 2 children 2 houses burned down

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/08/military.jet.crash/index.html
Dec 8 2008 7:31PM
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Cool4aCanadian
Posts: 87 - Karma: 11
this is why those links are stupid. when you are taking about something serious, you dont want to see a link to a shitty ski store (the house) in the middle of the sentence. also, you cant quote someone unless you delete the link.
Dec 8 2008 7:36PM
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line1260skier
Posts: 1570 - Karma: 16
I heard 3 dead on the radio a little while ago.
Dec 8 2008 8:57PM
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Scott~~
Posts: 74 - Karma: 10
He never expected an AA gun in the suburbs...
Dec 8 2008 9:03PM
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FUUUCK
Posts: 18426 - Karma: 4,888
not funny dude
Dec 8 2008 9:08PM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
ya really dude not funny. i think its kinda ironic that this happened on the day Roosevelt gave his speech about the day that will live in infamy
Dec 8 2008 9:15PM
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Scott~~
Posts: 74 - Karma: 10
You are seriously comparing pearl harbor to a plane crash? Ahahahahahahahaha~
Dec 8 2008 9:52PM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
no i am not what i am saying is that i think its ironic that a plane crashed the day after pearl harbor and that it is kinda odd
Dec 8 2008 9:54PM
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TechnoPotamus
Posts: 11626 - Karma: 3,522
dam......++++vibes...rest in peace.
Dec 8 2008 9:54PM
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skinnylove
Posts: 6807 - Karma: 167
it's kinda sad how the pilot gets to live but the innocent bystanders in the house have to suffer. +++ vibes to anyone involved in the accident.
Dec 8 2008 10:15PM
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Scott~~
Posts: 74 - Karma: 10
You have got to be kidding me, it was an obvious connection to the pearl harbor attack and in no way is this some kind of incredible coincidence. As if 3 people dying in a plane crash is some great coincidence. Because it was military related and the japanese used kamikazes or something? What kind of a bullshit stretch is that. The funny thing is, the true irony comes from the fact that he questioned the morality of my statement, then said something incredibly insulting to any pearl harbor vet out there. Thats why Im laughing, hes an idiot, and well Im not even sure why I quoted you drew, please respond with something half meaningful next time~
Dec 8 2008 10:23PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Today is December 8th.

Pearl Harbor occurred on December 7, 1941. The day after (that would be December 8th), President Roosevelt gave his speech. He is saying that it is ironic that this plane crash occurred on the day of the speech.
Dec 8 2008 11:18PM
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JeffersonDavis
Posts: 1167 - Karma: 14
dude there is a big vastness in historical magnitude in one solitary f18 crash and pearl fucking harbour.
Dec 8 2008 11:22PM
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Nicholas.
Posts: 10905 - Karma: 60
yo just let the pearl harbor shit go, its not even really relevant  just talk about the issue at hand.
Dec 8 2008 11:28PM
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Scott~~
Posts: 74 - Karma: 10
I wont deny there would be a tinge of irony in a plane crash on the pearl harbor memorial day, but if he is just referring to the speech, there really isnt any at all~
Dec 8 2008 11:49PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
well, you can't really blame the pilot so much. His plane was going down, so he got his shit out of there. As terrible as it is to look it, his life is worth more to the government than the civilians. Doesn't take away from the tragedy at all however. And i'm sure it's something that will bother him as long as he flies now. I'm sure he didn't try to hit them
Dec 9 2008 12:01AM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
I drove right by it on my way to work less than 5 minutes after it happened. If I had actually been on time to work I could have seen it go down.

I thought it was a random brush fire until I saw the black smoke billowing out of some house. If the pilot had held on he could have probably put it into a hill about a half mile away.
Dec 9 2008 12:17AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
that's gotta be one heck of a rubber neck eh!




and wow do the rest of you know what a coincidence is?

co / incident -- things that happen together by chance
Dec 9 2008 12:38AM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
People weren't actually rubber necking, I'm sure if they knew it was a plane they would have been. I should have known something was up when there was a helicopter flying over it.
Dec 9 2008 12:49AM
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Jodi
Posts: 4215 - Karma: 745
the pilot lived...therefor, he has to live with this for the rest of his life...knowing he downed a plane in a residential neighborhood...im sure thats going to be enough torture for him mentally....
Dec 9 2008 10:29AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
oh without a doubt. I feel for the poor guy. A lot of people feel terrible after killing enemies (maybe not so much navy pilots) and  this poor guy killed members of a family, no doubt just like his own.

And to whoever said he could make it to a hill, i'm willing to bet that he did everything in his power to clear civilian areas, but sometimes when a plane is going down, you have little control over where it goes down.

(good example of pilots avoiding ground stuff is the Air France pilot of the concorde that crashed, i've read that he knew they were going down but actually turned, putting the plane into a barrel roll and sealing it's fate to avoid hitting a densely populated area with a school)
Dec 9 2008 11:05AM
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Grove_Street
Posts: 482 - Karma: 15
dont feel bad scott i thought it was somewhat humerous
Dec 9 2008 11:09AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
ok, i just read another report on this...

apparently it was a Marine F/A-18, and he had engine troubles about 100 miles offshore. He was going for a straight in landing at Miramar but evidently realized he wasn't going to make it, so he turned towards the canyon hoping he could ditch it into there. The situation obviously got worse, and he did what he could to control the plane. He finally ejected less than 15 seconds (i've also read less than 10 sec.) before the plane hit the ground. Apparently he missed the canyon by less than 2 houses.
Dec 9 2008 11:20AM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
if that is true thats a bummer but major props to him for trying his best to save everything he could
Dec 9 2008 11:25AM
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hype
Posts: 1440 - Karma: 21
its clear that that kid who said the ironic comment about ros's speach was just trying to look intelligent, when in the end just looked stupid
Dec 9 2008 12:01PM
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GreekAR6
Posts: 527 - Karma: 11
Though that really sucks for the people on the ground I feel for the pilot too, thats a lot to live with
Dec 9 2008 12:10PM
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GreekAR6
Posts: 527 - Karma: 11
.
Dec 9 2008 12:52PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
ok so the guy who said the pilot might have been able to save it actually drove past the scene of the crash -- thus he could see that it was a close call


Questions of the Day:

who do you value more, the families or the pilot -- if you're the pilot do you bail out last second like the guy did to save yourself, or do you stay in it till the end and make sure you clear those last 2 houses


obviously had he stayed in the plane, and the plane still hit the houses than we have the most lives lost which i'm sure you'll consider, but lets stipulate that if you eject, you know the plane will hit the houses. 

already i think i saw someone say they thought the pilot is worth more than a citizen -- where do you draw the line? is one pilot worth more than 4 citizens?


Dec 9 2008 2:41PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
i'm a bit confused by the first part, are you calling me out or something? I'm not trying to hate or sound like an ass. Just confused.

And for the question, i would say there was no choice. A plane isn't like most vehicles where you can make a last second change to avoid something. It had engine trouble, which meant the plane was essentially a glider, and military jets are not good gliders. With no power, they drop like a brick. That plane had decided it was going down, and the pilot could only do so much to avoid houses.

Had he stayed in the plane, nothing would be different. In fact, things would be worse. 4 people on the ground and the pilot would be dead. And we would have little idea as to why the plane crashed. If the pilot died, they'd be losing the best source of information as to why that plane crashed in the first place.

And that was me who said the pilot was worth more than the citizen, but that is strictly from a financial, military stand point. And from a bystander. If it was my family, or the pilot was in my family, no doubt this opinion would be different. Tons of money went into training that pilot and preparing him to fly combat missions.

Actually the most valuable part of this whole situation was the plane itself, that pilot essentially drop anywhere between 30, and 60 million dollars on that house. But nonetheless still a tragic situation for everyone involved.
Dec 9 2008 3:12PM
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Scott~
Posts: 2551 - Karma: 49
Dont worry im just trying to start a shitstorm, success~
Dec 9 2008 4:13PM
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Soundgarden
Posts: 164 - Karma: 19
Obnviously its the governments fault. bush probably did it for all we know. the evidence is overwhelming, HE IS THE REALTERRORIST!!!!
Dec 9 2008 7:21PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
i wasn't calling you out, i was defending the guy who actually saw the site of the crash, he had a pretty good idea of how close it was to avoiding the houses.

I still wonder if the pilot could have not hit any of the houses had he not ejected -- it's such a close call
Dec 9 2008 7:27PM
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Eastcoastskier09
Posts: 197 - Karma: 8
3 died i heard
Dec 9 2008 7:41PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
oh ok, just checking.

Yea, i wonder about that too. Like if maybe he could have steered it towards the open road or something. And i bet you the pilot is already wondering what else he could have done. But with the evidence so far, i'd say he couldn't do much
Dec 9 2008 7:45PM
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Obsessedwski
Posts: 2261 - Karma: 71
has the pilot even been found yet?

and as for the question I would say the pilot did everything he could, once a plane decides its going down, you can't do shit to change its mind; its going down no matter what. I feel bad for everyone involved and I'm sure the pilot's devastated, all in all an unfortunate accident as far as we know.

++vibes
Dec 9 2008 8:08PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
yea, the pilot actually got hung up by his parachute in a tree not far from the crash site. Must have been a bit embarrassing to be stuck in a tree while your plane burns down a house
Dec 9 2008 8:09PM
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Astomp
Posts: 10090 - Karma: 344
i bet it was very far from embarassing. and im sure the last thing in his head if not at all was "fuck, im stuck in a tree i hope no one sees me." there is a bunch of 'ignant shit being said in this thread.
Dec 9 2008 9:53PM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
crazy shit
Dec 9 2008 9:54PM
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snowbladesforlife
Posts: 2033 - Karma: -3
The open roads were full of traffic, that would have caused more deaths than hitting a couple houses.

And to the oh so smart individual who thinks that one military pilot is worth more to the government than 4 people. The political ramifications of a military jet taking down a family in its house are far worse than a pilot dying. This is going to bring up the whole, 'should there be a large number of military flights going over a huge population.' That's something the government really doesn't want to have to deal with.
Dec 9 2008 9:57PM
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seeingstars
Posts: 422 - Karma: 14
at least the people never knew what hit them
Dec 9 2008 9:59PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
well obviously. I wasn't being serious there saying that he was thinking "ah fuck i'm stuck in a tree." He was probably happy to be alive first, then tried to figure out if the plane hit anything. Military pilots, from what i've heard, (i know a few) are told that their own safety is paramount in these situations.

and i still stand by my opinion that the military pilot is worth more than the family (yes, it was me) And the only political repercussions that could come of those would be a lawsuit, and protests to close down MCAS Miramar. But there are always protests to close bases anyways. Call me ignorant if you want, but i'm sure the government will pay the family for lawsuits etc, claim some changes have been made to the base to prevent this from occuring again, and move on. From a military standpoint 4 civilians is nothing but bad PR for a bit. It'll blow over in time. It was an accident, not like he did it on purpose. Accidents happen. What 3rd world country are we living in when people think that because the pilot lived, he ddin't do his job? He did what he could, tried to save it, and lost it so he got his shit out of there. It's not like they have a lack of funding in the military, they can handle a lawsuit.

And whats funny is i bet some of the people who call me out on this will be the same ones who say 9/11 was a government cover up.
Dec 9 2008 11:31PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
oh well of course it's extremely sad. I saw part of that as well. I felt terrible for him, but sometimes accidents do happen.

+vibes to the family members
Dec 9 2008 11:36PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
i don't see how that is relevant -- at all

but anyways, just something to consider- if there were no citizens there would be no air force. there is no reason asides from protecting the citizens to have an air force. so in that perspective the civilians take precedence over the pilot
Dec 10 2008 12:23AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
well, at the time it seemed logical and relevant because people who say the government will get in deep shit for accidentally killing 4 people are the same ones who claim the government killed thousands. I don't know, looking back it was a stupid comparison. It happens, sorry, i've been concentrating more on finals than a thread on ns.

And for the 2nd part, i agree. They should take precedence...but this was an accident. They weren't under attack or anything. It just happened, sometimes plans malfunction...

Regardless of your point of view, i think there was nothing the pilot could have done, and arguing over if his life is worth it or not is pointless. I say it was, others say it wasn't. But what it comes down to is that right now 4 civilians are dead despite the pilot's greatest efforts, and that pilot lived. He did what he could and once he had no choice left, and got his ass out of there, most likely because he thought the plane had cleared the houses.  Anyone would have done the same, and if you say you wouldn't have ejected, you're full of shit. It's like saying you'd let yourself die even though you have a way out safely.
Dec 10 2008 1:07AM
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SKIDUBAIGUY
Posts: 3018 - Karma: 8
Actually, he probabaly wasnt even conscious at that point, he would have experianced a force of 12- 14 G sometimes a force of 22G depending on circumstances, he would be out cold. Also, what you said about safety, having a dad who used to fly in the airforce, they put the safety of the general public before theirs, just look at the job their doing, high risk military action in the protection of their country. I have heard many stories of pilots NOT ejecting and staying with the aircraft to make sure it goes down outside of residential areas etc in a bid to not kill any innocent civilians. True, he probabaly tried his best to avoid that area and the F-18 is a bitch to fly unpowered because it has tiny wings, but as we can see from the helicopter shots their was a huge field nearby in which he could of made the aircraft go down in. My thoughts are that the aircraft staled resulting in the aricraft falling into the residential area and him ejecting, so he might have been close to putting it down outside that area BUT he could have done a better job, although he was probabaly in a major panick and not thinking straight.
Dec 10 2008 4:04AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
yea, actually when i saw the helicopter views thats what i thought too. He was headed towards an open area then must have stalled out and bailed. Poor guy might thought he was over open ground when he bailed. It would be very logical that he stalled actually. He was on approach to land so he was of course going slow, and he was having engine troubles, so possibly going slower than usual. It could be a ton of things that caused it. Wind, weather, hell, he could have hit a bird for all we know. Thats why having the pilot alive is handy to investigators, he can probably tell them exactly what was happening right until he bailed.

And i've never heard of ejection seats knocking people out, it does bring you to some insane high gs, but it's for seconds at most. But i don't know much about the ejection seats themselves. I suppose going that fast it would make sense to be knocked out
Dec 10 2008 8:42AM
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