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skiings future

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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
ok, so i may not be the best of skiers, but i do know about my skiing. and i know what its lacking, due to my recent interest in snowboarding. Skiing is lacking creativeness. I'm beginning to see more of it, but not enough. We've seen a lot of park skiing for the last 5 years. The jumps get bigger, the tricks get burlier, and the injury rate goes up...obviously. And what the line team is doing, is the right thing. They are headed in what i think is the right direction. Sure, comps are good for companie exposure, and fame. but is that what its all about? should everyone ski, so they can be worshipped by skiers worldwide? i would really like to start seeing more team videos. like 1242. You get a core group of riders, (the pro riders), and set out to film the most original/creative shit you can think of. then you are making a good video. is this not whats happening with snowboarding? you will all say, we need to break away from them, and be our own sport. you know what i have to say to that? 'F--you' i wish skiing and boarding would merge closer together. Videos could have Skiers and boarders. Its already been done, and i think its sick. We all do the same damn thing. one forward, one sideways. someday you wait, it will happen. its just like the old days. white didnt like blacks, because they were different. well today, i have no problem with. that there is some progression of mankind if you ask me. but ya. a lot of peeps are probably gonna disagree with me, and thats fine.

'When I'm mad as fuck you get shot and to some it's bad luck, I believe you held something back for too long, it grew strong and energy got its own will, and people think that we make music still, but music is there without you or me we just minipulate for better or worse so let it situate.'
Sep 28 2003 1:05AM
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strode
Posts: 7549 - Karma: 14
dude just ski and have fun. if you want to snowboard, then snowboard. if you want to go skiing with snowboarders, go skiing with snowboarders. if you want to switch, then do it just remember it's frustrating as hell when you go from being real good at something and then turning around and totally suck ass at something else





Abba Zabba, you my only friend
Sep 28 2003 1:09AM
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under_achieved
Posts: 1164 - Karma: 14
I couldnt agree with you more andy, I think that skiing and boarding should be put closer together, I mean we pretty much are the same sport, there are differences of course but the idea and the end result is the same for both. pretty much all of my friends that I live and ride with are boarders and with my only connection to the 'ski scene' being this web site and a few magazines I'v gotta say that I feel much more like a snowboarder with skis than a skier.

by the way this is the first good post I'v read in a long while.
Sep 28 2003 1:20AM
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hanklambo
Posts: 6422 - Karma: 233
once i see a ski movie that resembles afterbang.. i know that skiing has reached the point that it has been waiting to get to for sooo long now... were gettin there
..4frntn..
poniverusonline.tk
Sep 28 2003 1:26AM
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jibhouse
Posts: 734 - Karma: 11
so how exactly would we get closer? we already use the same facilities, and if you say skiing lacks creativness thats kind of whack man, each new video blows my mind, the shit they come up with, and maybe its because im not creative, but dude, 1242 the roof to rail, thats creative man, i really really think skiing is ahead of snow boarding in a lot of aspects, amplitude, style, creativness, and you kind of made it sound like we should try to be more like them, and i feel in order to be like them we would have to do a substantial amount of digresing-
sorry if this sounded like i was trying to be a dick, i absolutely wasnt trying to be, i think you have a very interesting topic at hand, that is worthy of full length discussion-


skiings about going out and charging every day, no matter how good you are-
j miller
Sep 28 2003 1:27AM
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feezy
Posts: 2022 - Karma: 23
I'm glad this got brought up. i really want to see more creativeness in videos. Getting footage from 14 different guys and throwing it al together isnt that cool. the girl video Yeah Right may be a skateboarding video, but the ccreativeness is what skiing need. Snowboarding is headed in the right direction, and us skiers are almost there, but we are in that awkward transitional stage. Just look at Focus and youll see what i mean. i think once people stop peeing their pants over Morrison and realize their is more to skiing than butt checks we will see a drastic change in the sport. Also, Mosely is not helping much either, but that is for a different thread.


Dont waste that shit
Sep 28 2003 1:28AM
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Krongos
Posts: 5214 - Karma: 47
good point andy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dan Maguire
Yankees Suck

'...all fled before his face. All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax.'

How many snowboarders does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
10, 1 to do it, and 9 to say 'I can do that.'

'Dude, we're sick. He's pretty sick, but his muscles aren't as big as mine, so you know.'-CR Johnson
Sep 28 2003 1:37AM
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*Neil
Posts: 2591 - Karma: 75
sum snowboard moveis suck, i just saw the gong show... hollly shit that wasnt very original...
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---> www.powder11.com
Sep 28 2003 1:46AM
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fatgaygirl69_666_420_lol
Posts: 43 - Karma: 8
youre not the best of skiers? i never would have guessed.
Sep 28 2003 2:21AM
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fatgaygirl69_666_420_lol
Posts: 43 - Karma: 8
know what was kindof creative? check out skogens sprangs clip on lineskis.com, switch 180 to 360, youll know what im talking about. its cool.

and i didnt find afterbang that great. i mean.. the editing was cool and stuff, but it was just a lot of snowboarding 5ing of flat, and 1080ing off of tiny.
Sep 28 2003 2:24AM
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B-Wald
Posts: 8113 - Karma: 96
well said andy..
i couldn't agree more..until lately..most of the ski videos out have been only the biggest names all together..because of the sport still growing..but i really like the idea of smaller groups of people..team videos like you said..then they can really focus on those segments..
this year it's much better video-wise than before..it just seems like whenever teams get together to make movies..they always turn out better..and with smaller groups..you dont have as many opinions on makin the movie..and you dont have to make a generic video to please everyone in it..

snowboarding is still way ahead of skiing..i dont think there's really any denying that..the whole freestyle scene's been there the whole time with skiing..skiing's still moving towards that..and if skiing and snowboarding start to combine(videos)..that'd be awesome..
------------------------

- Andrew Berwald
Sep 28 2003 2:33AM
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Penguino1
Posts: 152 - Karma: 10
I couldnt agree more. Skiing is very creative, but that needs to be developed more, and definitely documented more. I think that if all skiers see Afterbang and Lame (both by RobotFood productions), it will boost our creativity as a whole. and i do think snowboarders and skiers need to come together. no more animosity, just friends, fun, creativity, and snow.


ITS COMING!!!
Sep 28 2003 2:56AM
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shawnm1260
Posts: 3219 - Karma: 66
i think that it would be cool,(and creative) if pollard had a segment in a movie that showed him skiing and boarding.. i dont know what others think, but i think that would be pretty sick
Sep 28 2003 6:19AM
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Jibtech
Posts: 2523 - Karma: 227
Wait a second... Make a video JUST LIKE AFTERBANG?

Well if you made a video exactly like afterbang you wouldn't be progressing shit. You'd just be copying. What so progressive and creative about copying what some else already did?

...



Sep 28 2003 7:13AM
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P-JO
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 75
I think snowboarding is more of a trend that shity people get into and skiing was more of dedicated skiers who've skied all there lives instead of jumping in on the sport because its kewl, but skiing is kinda becoming like that.
Sep 28 2003 7:15AM
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Dfresh
Posts: 3322 - Karma: 17
i thoguht that trailer for scanners was exactly like afterbang, the filming style and everything, someone get that movie and see what its like

as for team videos, not all snowboarding vids are team vids and not all work out to be that good, video gangs for example, im sorry it didn't blow my mind, it didn't even meet my expectations ,it was still good thouhg, but there are other videos too that are good

skiing videos need to get rid of msp and tgr, and have more lower budget films (pbp can stay), i don't mean shit ass films, i mean look at afterbang, that wasn't made by a company comparable to say msp, msp sucks sorry to all the die hard fans, those big budget movies take all the creativity out of it because when you are on a lower budget you see the little things and are forced to be more creative with your shots and tricks in order to attempt to match the big budget films, and that spurs the creativity...

as for a ski/snowboard vid? why the hell not? why isn't the next penguin milk film star skiers and boarders? or the next theory 3? or one of the not so big film companies who still has the ability to do what they feel like and are not following the rules set forth by some big sponsor

its definately possible, but i don't think we are behind boarders, we are ona different path, we progressed way quicker then they did, WAY faster, and i think we are at a level that next year we will be right beside them for sure.

'Keep on rocking in the free world'
Sep 28 2003 8:57AM
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Skibum420
Posts: 1838 - Karma: 314
this is why i liked the jibtech movies.....
i have never poured out beer, even to put out a grass fire-Hank Hill
Sep 28 2003 8:59AM
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Del-Gato
Posts: 446 - Karma: 10
I'm 100% behind what Andy said. And I think that I speak for my crew and pretty much everyone involved with Theory3. I hope that what we do in our movies and other things can help push that progression. Sking and snowboarding are the same lifestyle at the core level. When I started freeride I rode with all snowboarders and I still ride with a lot of boarders. Most of the people I ride with that are my age are boarders. In response to the trendy statement.....core skiing and snowboading are the same...snowboarding is only more trendy because it's been around longer than newschool skiing. More people still think of snowboarding than skiing when you talk about park and pipe. But the core is as true as that of skiing. It's all the same really.

FOCUS your mind.

Reflective like velcro.
-alpentalik
Sep 28 2003 9:12AM
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Schwags
Posts: 4692 - Karma: 399
Video and film is an art and when everyone puts out the same thing every year its like painting the same picture 10 times over. sure you get better at the same thing, but at some point you gotta move on to painting better/different pictures. Its tough comin up with new shit.. thats why they call it creativity. They should sell it in cans.
--------------
www.penguinmilk.com
Sep 28 2003 9:19AM
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Skibum420
Posts: 1838 - Karma: 314
thank god they put whoop ass into cans
i have never poured out beer, even to put out a grass fire-Hank Hill
Sep 28 2003 9:36AM
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westcoaststyle
Posts: 4057 - Karma: 31
like dave said, you guys have to stop saying 'skiing needs videos just like afterbang.' thatll get us nowhere. we as skiers need to come up with something new and different, be it editing style, or riding or whatever, on our own. until then, well still be 'snowboardings little brother'
_____________________________________________________________
mikee: What is money laundring? Ever since office space ive been deadly curious.

lanemeyer: It is what is says.... basically just washing cash so it's clean and new looking, therefore worth more...
Sep 28 2003 10:48AM
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Mahre
Posts: 2507 - Karma: 490
i just want to say, that my mission is to help progress skiing. everyone who reads this will think...ya right, your an idiot. but you wait...its amazing what a lot of determination can do...

'When I'm mad as fuck you get shot and to some it's bad luck, I believe you held something back for too long, it grew strong and energy got its own will, and people think that we make music still, but music is there without you or me we just minipulate for better or worse so let it situate.'
Sep 28 2003 11:54AM
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Shane_McWannabe
Posts: 1694 - Karma: 73
Dude, Afterbang had pretty much the same budget that MSP has. Another thing, Afterbang didn't just come out of nowhere. Jess Gibson was a filmer and editor for Standard Films for alot of years before he broke off with the riders and started RobotFood. All the Robotfood guys had alot of experience with other film companies.
Sep 28 2003 5:10PM
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phil_belan
Posts: 375 - Karma: 260
word....
plehousefilms.com
Sep 28 2003 9:36PM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
First off Andy I think that the only reason you aren't seeing this progression is cause your are stuck in the park. All you rats got to branch out take those skills you've learned to natural terrain. Last season after I felt really confortable with 3s I started doing them off cornices, cliffs, and windlips. It was so much more fun and cretive than doing them in the park. I telemark so if I can do it so can you. Look at what guys like pollard and skogen are going it's crazy right now. there is so much room for progression and creativity you just have to go out and challange your self and look for new things. GET OUT OF THE PARK.
Sep 28 2003 9:58PM
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$1080PLP$
Posts: 4382 - Karma: 12
andy you have the best point that anyone has made about the progression of our sport i'm all for it

Andy for president!!!!!

.:l[Tyler]l:.

and don't rub your scrotum against a power outlet
Sep 28 2003 10:07PM
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whashisface
Posts: 298 - Karma: 10
i totally agree with you andy. I think 1424 trailer is wicked and really progressive but most ski videos really suck. Especially msp and tgr. They're just really cheesy and show skiing out to look uncool. At least you don't have the crappy 'big budget' mountain bike films like jib and the down series. They might have big stuff on it but the attitude and style of the riders sets the sport back 5 years. Mountain biking should be about smoothness not just big hucks and copying bmx tricks (tailwhips) and don't get me started about pedal grinds. I dunno about pbp though i like their stuff but the trailer to ready fire aim seemed a lot like happy days. who knows what the final thing will be like? sorry for repeating stuff but it needs to be said.
Sep 28 2003 10:29PM
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cko
Posts: 1869 - Karma: 31
I'm really stoked to see this conversation taking place and all the different view points on it. Everyone has a different notion of what they would like our niche in the industry to become. The fact that the vast majority of people involved with skiing aren't satisfied with the level it's at right now (as far as creativity, size, etc.) tells me that we're on the right track. Everyone should really think about what they want from the sport and what they can do themselves to get it there.



you can't spell sick without ck
Sep 28 2003 10:39PM
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MidwestJibba
Posts: 983 - Karma: 12
dont worry to much about the future
Sep 28 2003 10:42PM
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phil_belan
Posts: 375 - Karma: 260
word....
plehousefilms.com
Sep 28 2003 11:38PM
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//d-lite//
Posts: 1784 - Karma: 9
shyt fuk!

F O C U S
Sep 28 2003 11:43PM
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mtbakerskier
Posts: 439 - Karma: 54
Mahre, youve got it 100% dead on, that is exactly what I have been trying to do with my photography for the past 3 years, and it is only going to get better in the future. In fact my goal for filming htis winter is that everyday I go out and shoot I want to have a crew of 1/2 skiers and 1/2 snowboarders, that way the athletes can better feed off eachother, and progress all of there styles, Skiing and snowboarding complement each other, and it is all about them starting to influence each other. I mean its like when im riding with a crew of mostly boarders I look at stuff differently than i do when Im riding with skiers. Another example is the home run gap last year the idea came from a crew of boarders, but when the skiers started to hit it, the boarders started to see a different way of hitting it and then the crrew of 1/2 skiers and 1/2 boarders started feeding off of each other, and turned htat session in to one of the best of the year. That is the kind of shit i want to start seeing happen. But inorder for it too work on hte entire indutry level, all of the corprate Fu(ks, from all of the ski and snowboard compaines need to realise that skiing and snowboarding is one and the same
www.GrantGunderson.com
Theory-3 Media
Sep 29 2003 1:28AM
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Papa
Posts: 4718 - Karma: 11
ya i liked your point on making a ski snowboard movie, that'd be sick, but otherwise i just don't care, i ski with boarders only cause other skiers are assholes pretty much, aswell to comment on how we lack creativness, well maybe we're just lazy, i think of new stuff all the time and style is so over rated, you have to be comfortable with what you're doing and how you're doing it, don't ski to impress others or make a name in the sport, do it to have fun, i hate skiing cause someone always finds some way to take the fun out of it




Seize the carp
Sep 29 2003 2:04AM
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Jibtech
Posts: 2523 - Karma: 227
haha phil.... silly queeb.
Sep 29 2003 2:05AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
It took snowboarding something like 15-20 years to get where it is today, and you want skiing to progress at a rate 3-4 times FASTER than that? Taking into account that freeskiing didn't just start from nothing, like snowboarding, but actually had to UNDO 200+ years of fucked up growth, it's amazing that skiing has come this far in 5-6 years. Give it time, it'll get there. And until it does, enjoy what you see, and remember that it's only getting better.


'jib_this why are you such an ass? all your posts are dissing someone els (sic)' Krongos
There ain't nothin' like a champagne buzz, but then there ain't nothin' like a champagne hangover.
SFU, still better than UBC
UNBAN MOMMY!
Sep 29 2003 2:32AM
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D-spin
Posts: 3609 - Karma: 21
when videos have skeirs and boarders the skiers ussally get showed up hardcore in rails, style, and air... ussally



STEEZ RiDeRs
Sep 29 2003 2:46AM
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acc
Posts: 4122 - Karma: 222
sounds good andy. great thread

SLTskier: there are so many girls in freeskiing now have you noticed that
stowek2: yep..theres a few skilled ones...a good number who love it and want to progress, then a bunch of morons that are trying to impress the boys by wearing as little clothing as possible and as much make-up as possible on the hill
SLTskier: yeah however im one that trys to progress and impress the boys :-)

^That Girl Is Awesome

SRMC
Sep 29 2003 2:55AM
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PhaedeD
Posts: 11498 - Karma: 327
ya dood this shit is gettin iller every year and all the tricks are gettin bigger and sicker but its gonna take a few more years to get the picture of some dude skiing in a jump suit out of a lot of peoples minds but we all know this shit is sick and way tighter than snowboarding











Go Big and Die!
Sep 29 2003 3:00AM
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telestar6
Posts: 2102 - Karma: 44
Fuck that!
Sep 29 2003 3:03AM
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offtrail
Posts: 3009 - Karma: 116
Skiing and snowboarding are coming together and i think that is what we need. The key is that ski films need to be changed. In the future films are going to focus on new riders who are throwing down right now. I saw it every day that skied at Park City last year. the group of skiers that i skied and filmed with are stepping it up more at a greater rate than anywhere. this is the future that people will see. If you want to see what i am talking about check out the trailer for Off Trail Productions Higher Education on the trailers section of the site. you will see that the Future is Now.

J.
there is a time and place for everything, and it's called college
Sep 29 2003 3:25AM
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Del-Gato
Posts: 446 - Karma: 10
Yo telestar6....I understand where you're coming from but I think you should reconsider who you're saying it to. My cousin Andy Mahre...son of Steve Mahre...Olympic silver medalist...a kid who can rip anywhere, anytime. Our crew is getting out of the park. We spend a good bit of time riding Mt Baker every year. Not all of us hang in the park all day. Watch FOCUS and you'll see a lot of BC booters from Baker. What you won't see is all the other shit we do off camera. Erich Kunz spends a good deal of time in the park. I ski a lot of powder. Jeff Harrison is on the US Ski Team, can rip pow, and kills it in the park. We all try to keep expanding our skills and take them to different places. I hear what you're saying about the park rat syndrome but we aren't the ones. Andy grew up inside the industry and has seen it from more angles than most people on this site. He knows what he's talking about.
Peace,
T3

FOCUS your mind.

Reflective like velcro.
-alpentalik
Sep 29 2003 4:36AM
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tori
Posts: 504 - Karma: 13
This is an awesome thread.

I think one of the other barriers to the creative progression of skiing is the fear that we will be labelled as 'copying' other sports. There seems to be this unwritten law about 'which sports are cool, and which are gay.'
Take the unreasonable fear of rollerblading's influence. There is a goldmine of inspiration for new rail variations there (just check out some of the sick stuff coming out of Quebec) but kids just parrot off 'oh thats gay' without giving it any thought.

It is not copying, it cant be, we are our own sport. Think of it as 'quoting' skateboarding, or 'paying homage' to surfing/bmx/snowboarding/inline/qymnastics/ping-pong ... whatever!!!

Its a limiting belief that is holding us back.


Made in Tasmania.

** I personally believe skiing is gaining soul. It's great to see racers ripping the pipe and boarders crossing over to skiing. If anything is taking away from the soul of skiing, it's the skiers who are in it for the wrong reasons, and the ones who are in chat rooms bagging on other people's style when they should be skiing **
- Pete O'Brien, AXIS
Sep 29 2003 5:01AM
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BigRich
Posts: 1634 - Karma: 29
If you want my point of view, What i like watching is skill. As a skier i can recognise what is hard to do, e.g. candides butter 360 to 360 or whatever its called, use of different terrain gaps and stepups, or even things like boyds ballet style 360 on the ground where he spins on his tips. On one old snowbaord movie TB8 i think, they made a mogoul and they boarded on to it with enough speed just to stay on top this guy spun a 720 on a mogul. Not especailly hard but i liked it because it was different. Also in one of the new snowbaord movies a boarder goes off a cliff ALLREADY grabbing his board and does a 540 and then lands. That is innovation and thats what i like to see. Park stuff will always blow my mind though, you need both for and excellent movie. I hope i made sence.

Rich

p.s. i havent even mentioned camera skills and editing but another thread entirely

Sep 29 2003 12:39PM
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Lanemeyers
Posts: 5007 - Karma: 19
I think we just need something fresh. And Afterbang was fresh for everyone last year! I don't believe we need to 'copy' Robotfood, I just think that a good video is going to come along when you get a good group of progressive riders together with a film crew and editing crew that are out to make something fresh, as opposed to a 'ski video'! I haven't seen it yet. When I first saw a 'newschool' video of skiing I was blown away cause I had been riding and totally turned my head to skiing and it's progression... Less mutes, creative lines, backcountry, less huck, switch landings, rails, etc....is what I want to see.... We can't expect to progress to snowboardings current state overnight, but we have to push ourselves If we want to progress at all.




Commander of the Silent Army

Viva La Resistance!


'haha god bless ssubsetnce abusess'-benditto
Sep 29 2003 5:05PM
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Girays_Brother
Posts: 13973 - Karma: 1,635
i agree with jib house up there everytime i watch a new trailer or ski movie i almost leak in my pants.. theres so much more and new creativity used in these movies i just watched exact science and it blew my mind in two... excuse me while i go watch it agin

Crazy midget productions

Dynastar

UP-IN-Arms
Sep 29 2003 6:56PM
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otherwise
Posts: 22 - Karma: 10
While I agree that we need more creativity in this sport, and the big brands like Rossi, Salomon, Atomic, Head, etc. aren't giving them to us, I would like to point out that Kris Ostness has already made three of the MOST creative films in ski or snowboard history. His films also included both skiers and snowboarders, and I believe they were portrayed equally. I'm not saying they were the best movies ever made. I'm simply pointing out to all of you who keep saying we need movies with skiers and boarders and we need creative film styles, go check out one of his movies. For better or for worse, they certainley are creative, and definitely not a copy.
Sep 29 2003 7:09PM
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offtrail
Posts: 3009 - Karma: 116
True ostness is sick at everything that he does. Chad's gap and pyramid are what they are today because of him and his crew. I think the problem was that most people were so stuck in their ways of matchstick and tgr that they couldn't accept something new. he was ahead of his time.

Wind up films rocks


there is a time and place for everything, and it's called college
Sep 29 2003 7:50PM
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canonrider
Posts: 2635 - Karma: 29
If you watch skateboard flicks nowadays, what i really enjoy about them is that, there isnt, just handrail tricks, and there isnt just concrete park lines, etc. skaters are so creative today taking all there skills and doing the most innovative stuff, and theres no limits to what they can do, marc johnson said 'what i love about skateboarding is that anything that you dream up in your head can be done'

I think that skiers need to open there minds, and stop thinking, im either going to ride park, or ride rails, and do these certain tricks on these certain types of terrain, and this is when we will truly begin to progress. Dont get me wrong, we are progressing really quick right now, but if you watch the nixon jibfest video you will see how snowboarding is slowly evolving to this freethinking, no-limit type of expression on snow. this is where skiing needs to be

b
Bent Films
www.canonskiboards.com
Sep 29 2003 9:09PM
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Lateralis
Posts: 1228 - Karma: 332
andy is right tho, if they merged skiing and snowboard vids together itd be fucken sick, imagine havin shaun white and candide in the pipe together going huge as fuck


'I think I see Blue.......He looks glorius!' Will Ferrel
Sep 29 2003 9:14PM
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Schwags
Posts: 4692 - Karma: 399
boomp
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www.penguinmilk.com
Sep 30 2003 3:58AM
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Five40Guy
Posts: 4733 - Karma: 39
this is deep. and good


www.penguinmilk.com--- speShul
Oct 6 2003 1:18AM
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