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How does socialized medicine work?

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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
This seems to be an issue in the upcoming elections and I was just wondering if some Canadians could explain how your system works. Also do you think its a good thing or not? From my understanding it would be like everyone has the same health insurance and it is paid for by taxes. I also read somewhere that it was against the law for a company to sell private health insurance in Canada.

I don't really understand how this could be better than the system Americans have now. I understand that having poor people have the same care as rich people sounds good but shouldn't people with more money be allowed to pay for a better health insurance plan?
Jan 6 2008 3:58AM
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2+2=5
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 18
the hospital and care clinics are government owned. you get a little health card, and when u get treatment you give them the number and its free. but not everything is free. and thats where insurance comes in. the government used to cover dental treatment, chiropractor, neuteropathy, plastic surgery, etc. but now you need insurance on that if you dont want to pay for it. and the insurance works the same way as in America.
Jan 6 2008 10:57AM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Its kinda analagous to schools... if you want your kid to get an education, you enroll them in public schools, and for the mostpart, that covers everything. Nothing is stopping a person, besides finances, from taking their kid out and doing the private school thing tho. Same with healthcare - the government would sponsor a health insurance plan that covers the majority of hospital treatments and care, but if you want to be covered for cosmetic surgery or something like putting a microchip in your head, you'd have to opt out for a private plan if you wanted that covered.
Jan 6 2008 11:32AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
Basically the government takes over and starts taxing the hell out of the working man
health care is good at first and everyone gos to the doctor.
eventually no one wants to become a doctor
now you will die on the waiting list to get that transplant.
Jan 6 2008 12:28PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
Not really over the working man, they start taxing those who can afford to be taxed. Would it be fair for a person that only makes say, 10,000$ a year to be taxed the same amount as one who makes 4million$ per year? The taxes would barely make a dent in the 4million$ salary. Why make people who are working their asses off for 10,000$ per year pay huge chunks of their salary when you can have people who are making way more money pay the taxes, that would have little effect on their lives?
Jan 6 2008 12:42PM
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Casey
Posts: 7783 - Karma: 23,455
I support catastrophic health insurance provided by the government to all citizens. If someone thats poor has a heart attack, or gets cancer, or gets hit by a bus, they are basically fucked. That being said, I don't want the bill every time some kid has a stuffy nose. Additionally, when people have life threatening diseases, they go to the doctor whether they can afford it or not. So in essence this is the de facto program anyway in the US, we just need to instituionalize it for efficiency and fairness sake.
Jan 6 2008 12:43PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
The rich man is the guy who pays the working man. I think taxes are way too high. if the feds keep taking all the rich mans money he is going to have to lay off his workers. I think a flat tax is the fairest way to go about it.
Jan 6 2008 12:47PM
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cousinmark
Posts: 939 - Karma: 29
how could you say such a thing. watch sicko. having to suffer in pain because you cant afford a doctor is horrible!!!!!! to me private health care is barbaric. 
Jan 6 2008 12:56PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
But have you seen that a very little percentage of America's population has like 95% of its money (or something like that, I learned it in my US Government class). If we tax the crap out of that little population, they will most likely not be hurt at all, and will still be able to pay their workers. Flat tax would completely fuck the poor/poormiddle class.
Jan 6 2008 1:03PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
By the way Tanner, I like how we are not snapping back at eachother and making outrageous insults and claims like RezFredrick would, because we have different political ideas.
Jan 6 2008 1:04PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
haha yeah even though I agree with him he is a jackass

But about taxing the rich... I don't think the government should have the right to play robin hood. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Most people who are rich worked their ass off to get there and it's not right for the government to steal that. I mean socialism is a close cousin to communism and if you get the same money as the jackass who doesn't do anything you will probably slack off too. Competition leads to advances in everything.
Jan 6 2008 1:11PM
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user098123
Posts: 6072 - Karma: 18
I've heard that the quality of doctors is less in countries with socialized medicine systems, though I'm not sure if there is anyway this could be proven. I thought that they also make substantially less money, however I don't know how malpractice insurance works in a system like that. Anyone know?
Jan 6 2008 1:15PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,018
Yeah but if I was filthy rich, I would feel really bad if I didn't give the poor some kind of monetary help if it wouldn't even put a dent into my monetary keep. I just hate to see people suffer while I am having the time of my life, using expensive shit that poor people wouldn't even have a chance to use. That's just the way I look at life.
Jan 6 2008 1:16PM
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JFerg
Posts: 2440 - Karma: 62
The tax is exactly proportional to your salary. For example (I have no idea the actual numbers) the gov't would take 5% of your yearly wage for health care. Everyone pays the same amount with respect to how much they make. That guarantees everyone in the country an equal amount of health care. Like said before, if you want more thorough health care (or out of country health care) you can pay more for it. And I don't know who said it before but if socialism is one step closer to communism, it's perfectly logical to say that conservatism is a step closer to fascism. I'm a Canadian and I think universal health care is great.
Jan 6 2008 1:19PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
^Thats the biggest load of shit I've seen all day, and I honest to god had a massive one this morning. Doctors in countries with socialized medicine dont make millions, but they make enough and are most definitely rewarded for their hard work and dedication. If you want to make millions, go start a corporation, but if you always want to have a job that pays well if you can handle the work load and stress, be a doctor.
Jan 6 2008 1:22PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Sorry, that was meant for GLrunner. Heres a interesting article from Wikipedia:

Health insurance in Canada

Most health insurance in Canada is administered by each province, under the national law that requires all people to have free access to basic health services. Collectively, the public provincial health insurance systems in Canada are frequently referred to as Medicare. Private health insurance is allowed, but in the Quebec province it is allowed only for services that the public health plans do not cover; for example, semi-private or private rooms in hospitals and prescription drug plans. Canadians are free to use private insurance for elective medical services such as Lasik surgery, plastic surgery such as liposuction, and other non-basic medical procedures. Some 65% of Canadians have some form of supplementary private health insurance; many of them receive it through their employers.[58] Private-sector services not paid for by the government account for nearly 30 percent of total health care spending.[59] In 2005, the Supreme Court of Quebec ruled, in Chaoulli v. Quebec, that the province's prohibition on insurance for health care already insured by the state could constitute an infringement of the right to life and security if there were long wait times for treatment as happened in this case. Certain other provinces have legislation which financially discourages but does not forbid private health insurance in areas covered by the public plans. The ruling has not changed the overall pattern of health insurance across Canada but has spurred on attempts to tackle the core issues of supply and demand and the impact of wait times [60].


Jan 6 2008 1:24PM
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ontwosticks
Posts: 915 - Karma: 95
this is the crucial point, and it's incredibly true. If two workers are going to make the same amount of money person A and person B each making 25,000 dollars a year working at a factory, they should conceivably be performing the same amount. So person A should make 100 units a day and person B should make 100 units a day. But if person A is working exponentially harder making say 400 units per day and person B is working less hard making 40 units per day, shouldn't person A make more money? In a socialized system (whether it be health care or salary) competition is eliminated, and people slack off.

But on the other hand, doesn't it make a ton of sense for everyone to receive some form of health care. That's why canada's system makes sense, provide a socialized base, and then a capitalistic top level, and then we have the best of both worlds. I like this idea, base the new american system off canada's system and i think we'll have it right.
Jan 6 2008 2:36PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Agreed, but the real unknown is if this system can work across such a large country efficiently, and nobody is going to be able to correctly answer this until its actually employed.
Jan 6 2008 2:40PM
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Itsbackfliptime
Posts: 18901 - Karma: 75
I read that usually people in Canada pay more in taxes than most Americans spend on health insurance and receive less benefits as well. Also it said doctors in Canada are paid 42% less than doctors in American which is just absurd. I don't know how true this stuff is because the website I read it on seemed very biased against socialized medicine.

I don't think anyone should be denied health care for life threatening situations and thats already true in the US. I don't know what to change to make things much better. Many people get insurance through their employers and don't have to pay at all. Others pay for it but still pay less than they would in a tax system. Medicare/Medicaid is also available for those that can't afford other insurance.

Eliminating competition just doesn't make sense to me and I see no reason why all the people who don't pay for health insurance should all of a sudden have to start paying for it and get inferior service.
Jan 6 2008 2:53PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I like your views
Jan 6 2008 4:11PM
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SteezyasPie
Posts: 1160 - Karma: 15
yeah, and id like to point out Nazi Germany was socialist, Nazi stands for Natzional Sozialismus, or National socialism (i know the spelling isnt perfect, but its been a year since i saw it written)

ok, so America wouldn't be the next nazi germany, but socialism, and socialized medicine is a step in that (wrong) direction,

and, isn't "socialized" a misnomer, shouldnt it be "communized" because the government takes over completely, rather than just aiding (which is the main difference between socialism and communism)
Jan 6 2008 7:10PM
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michelle
Posts: 6290 - Karma: 428
health care is a load of fucking shit in america. especially in massachusetts


im moving to france
Jan 6 2008 8:33PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
The answer to this question is easy

IT DOESN'T
Jan 6 2008 8:38PM
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