Global warming: Ignorance and Hypocrisy...

right on the money.  exactly.

its not a partisan issue, or rather, it shouldn't be.

On average. We haven't seen an great explosion for a while, and one great explosion releases more CO2 than all human activity, ever.

Temperature increased greatly during the time where we had no big volcanic eruptions, which also coincided with the industrial revolution.



It isn't that clear cut. I'd say our CO2 is a bad thing, but the warming could be greater due to our CFCs than CO2.

i think a lot of you people are jumping on the bandwagon. Half of you didnt give a fuck about this before it became a political issue and most of us didnt even know about this shit until it got national coverage. Fuck it, im going to live my life the way i want to, and no left winger can change that. Thats america, we can do what we please with out lives. I enjoy airconditioning in the summer because im a winter person and i love a cold room. I like driving in my car instead of walking or taking some smelly ass bus with a lot of smelly ass homeless people. Vegans piss me off because they dont understand that animals serve no other purpose than to be eaten. The earth goes through phases, and global warming isnt human caused, it can be argued that we have exacerbated it tho. Who knows, who cares. I wont be here when it gets 1 degree hotter. I wont be here when it causes the world to end.
   the fact is that almost all of the high profile people out there dont give a shit either. If you are Al Gore, you spin this situation and use it for political gain. If you are rockstars, you preach this shit out of the side of your mouth while you piss your money away on private jets, huge cars, and foreign babies. and live earth? GIVE ME A BREAK, those guys opened up a bottle of water every 4 seconds on stage. They used so much energy just to bring their shit music to your ears. This is why i dont listen to any of these morons. I listen to myself and what I want to do. Im not going to waste any sleep over this stuff because it doesn't benefit me to do so. So turn on your Air conditioners or just preach this bullshit like all of the other mindless sheep out there, just dont push this on me  because im sick and tired of being told how to live.

Screw the next generation, I'm here now and fuck all y'all!


did i get that?

I love how everyone look short term on this issue...it humours me...

Have you ever read the book "Ishmael"? It's an amazing read, really eye opening. You seem like you'd like it, but more to the point. Farming is an intense job, and it's seriously hard work year round, not the easiest life.

with out us here the earth would follow its natural path.  the amount of co2 from volcanoes and other natural phenomena would be countard with earths ability to replenish its self by means of rain clouds TREES plants and other sources of repleneshment.

sarry to sound like a fucking scientist i just dont like it when people say its not our fault and yes i did see you said not completely witch is true, the world does have a natural path of heating and cooling due to natural causes.  but with humans here it is happining at a rate that is outstandingly fast, compared to the last several times the earth has done this!  it usually happens every some millions of years, but with us its happening in a matter of acouple of hundred years.

i reaserched this for along time and i still do.  Their is of frozen co2 beneath the oceans, and when the ice melts, the water will warm causing the frozen co2 to melt and bubble up (like a bong) up to earths atmosphere (the chamber haha) and cause the world to heat to sum 120 degrees.  the poles would turn into rain forests, which they have evedence of them having been one after the last incedence.  so our kids and grandkids are basicly fucked if we dont change. 

rant over.

I just dont think that fact is true. There definitely isn't a clear cut answer on it, but from the information ive read this just cant be true. The reason why volcanos actually COOL the earth is because of the huge amounts of sulfur dioxide that they blast into the upper atmosphere levels. Since this region is above the clouds, the sulfur dioxide stays for quite some time and becomes some other chemical compound that is basically an aerosol. The aerosol actually reflects sun back into space, and this effect is greater than the effect that the released CO2 causes. So, the earth actually cools down a little bit after a huge eruption like mount pinatubo. I really dont thnk that one reaction releases more CO2 than all of human history. I think this is misinformation. 

Pretty much on point. im More liberal than conservative but I think their needs to be some balance. I agree 100% that most conservatives are really stupid and only believe and support what their party tells them to. i think its like  the book 1984, they are pretty much brainwashed by their party. Honestly I think most conservatives are really misinformed.

The burdens on a farmer today are largely artificial. It is rare that a farmer does not have plenty of food to feed his family, but it is much less rare that he losses the farm due to an inability to produce such surplus to pay heavy taxes on the land. The Native Americans were alot better off than we are today.

If any of you really think the greatest thing about America is the lack of social responsibility, you're a disgrace to everything this country once was intended to stand for.

Youre are an idiot.  Many people didn't care before it was politisized because they didn't know any different before hand.  Now, I agree that all the political spin is bulllshit and keeps us from actually acting on the problem of global warming (i hate that term though), but you have to realize that you are jumping on the opposite bandwagon.  The bandwagon of "I will live my life however the fuck I want because this is America and I can do whatever the hell I want!".  The fact is that you can't live "however you want" beceause living however you want is causing it so that your grandchildren (or even possibly your children, meaning you too depending on what we continue to do to our earth) will not be able to do the same you blundering idiot.  Like Ryno said, think to the fucking future. 

And everyone with an environemtnally concious mind should read the book "Cradle to Cradle".  It's an amazing book and it's not even printed on normal paper!  It's all about not telling us that we need to change our lives ans society, rather, it is about how we can do so through such things as designing buildings to repremble (the funtionality) of trees.
http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm

For all of you people who dont care for the enviorment.

You seriously need to trip on some mushrooms, cause you will apreciate it alot more afterwards and realize that wee need to keep it.

word or just go smoke a fatty blunt. or to be environmentally friendly you could eat it!! :)

Honestly, I will state again as I have in every other global warming thread I have seen...


The Gloabl Warming campaign is primarily an effort to accustom people to consuming less so that when OIL PRODUCTION BEGINS TO FALL PERMANENTLY, people are a little more prepared to cope with the effects. I think the problem of industrial waste, covering the Earth under concrete, and filling it with consumer trash is more of an environmental issue than global warming anyway.

Word to that

And although I mention this in every global warming thread, I will mention it again because it is a very importatnt point that people (especially people that do not "believe" in global warming".  The issue of Global Warming is MUCH bigger than the world simply getting warmer.  Sure parts of the world will get warmer and as the nay-sayers will point out, yes, parts of the world will cool down as well.  But beyond the world cooling and heating up, is the effect that we are having on the earth itself.  Every single biosphere on earth is currently in decline mostly due to human activities.  As humans, we have turned numerous habitats previously teaming with live (such as rainforests) into fast lifelesss deserts which can barely sustain life jsut because we want some material object such as oil, diamonds, or even paper.  It is things like this that are being largely ignored through the polital aspect of Global Warming and people need to wake up to this.  Thus, I propose Global Warming be renamed Global Ignorance.

some food for thought for the doubters of global warming

if it is the case that global warming is of natural causes (and not from human activity) a flag should be raised when exxonmobil spent over 16 billion dollars between 1998-2005 on 43 different organizations all of which have cast the doubt which you probably believe in.

if you're wondering where the incentive for this might possibly come from  look at a list of the 20 most profitable companies.   number one on that list? Exxonmobil

thats so silly.  why would ExxonMobil want to cast doubt on "global warming"?

in fact, they've actually been trying to promote global cooling by dumping millions of gallons of crude oil into Prince William Sound.

    short and confused, you are exactly the type of person im talking about. You are one of those people who try and force your beliefs on other people. Why do you care that I dont care? I dont care that you care this much. I think its great that you are all wrapped up in this and that you read books that arent made out of real paper. good for you. Just because i dont want to do that doesnt give you the right to jump all over me for it. Freedom of choice buddy, i dont have to adopt your opinions and you dont have to adopt mine.
   im not sure what to believe about global warming because these days every single fact is skewed to accommodate some politicians stance. So, for now, I will believe what I always have. I don't care what happens tommorrow  because living for the future is stupid. You do that and you miss whats happening today, and today the most important thing to me is getting my last 2 finals over with so i can go home, wait  a week, and then go to Big Sky and shred for 2 weeks.
  

We care because we live on the same planet as you and don't want to sit by while you kill it.

duh

^ Im not killing it. One person can't kill the earth. Its not like Im opening the filters on smokestacks around the world

Some food for thought:

We already have all the solutions to "global warming", or any environmental issue.

All humans need to live is food, shelter, and water. We can get all of these via farming and hunting. Can we live in extreme places and still make it work? No. You can't live in the middle of arizona very easily. But there are plenty of places that do work.

Also, the smaller the world's population, the easier this is.

The funny thing, to me, is that the only true reason to "reform our ways" for the environmentalist cause is to be able to live our lives as close to how we do now, without ruining the earth enough to end the party.

Pretty much every single thing we do in our day, and in our lives, is unnecessary and wasteful. TV, books, roads, art, using computers, carpet, skiing, school, stylish clothing, you name it, we don't really need it.

Our advances in medical technology? They prolong our lives past the point of usefulness to society. Which increases the population, which puts more of a strain on the earth.

I don't know about you, but I enjoy all these improvements we've made on our lives. It is improving that has made the problems exist in the first place, and yet it is the same technological advances that have given us the ability to recognize the problem, and potentially solve it.

The industrial revolution? Probably pretty bad for the environment. But without it, would we be where we our now? Man will adapt, or peril. You could argue that as technology advances, these problems will just be solved.

So, lastly, does being an "environmentalist" mean you are truly concerned with the welfare of the earth? Or our ability to use it as we see fit, without consequence. Because, if you are truly worried about the earth, you have to consider this:

If we do keep on some downward spiral, and melt the ice caps, and start any number of major weather catastrophes, we'll probably just drown ourselves, or end society as we know it in some other way. When that happens, most likely the earth will just heal itself.

check out the rest of his work too. his landscapes and katrina aftermath work are pretty cool.

Not true.  Nearly everything you do is contributing to "killing it".  Hell, I do plenty of things that aren't good for the environment but I try to do what I can to help it at the same time.  think of it this way.  If everyone thought like you, that one person cannot make a difference, where would society be today? Oh yeah! in an environmental crisis.  If a large enough group of individuals believe they don't have an effect on the environment, then they will ultimately have one because the effects of each individual add onto the last one. THINK.


But seriously, did Ghandi not have an effect on the politics of India? Because he certainly didn't begin working on his own.  Did Martin Luther King not have an effect on America? Because he certainly didn't act on his own accord.  Dare I continue?

I believe it was margaret mead who once said, "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world.  Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

You're mindset helps keep those smokestacks open by supporing the culture of neurotic consumerism.

posting on the internet keeps the smokestacks running.

Your computer takes factories to produce, probably has a lot of plastic (oil) in it, contains gold and other precious metals (mined, using mining equipment, which probably runs off of oil), uses electricity, which, while it could be from solar, wind, or a dam, could equally be made from coal or natural gas.

Your internet connection most likely comes from some commercial web provider, that pays for ads, which fund tv or some print media, and help consumerism.

Pretty much, if you can reach me in this way to complain about consumerism, you're part of it.

This is somewhat true, but at least I acknowledge that I too have an impact. Some people won't even do that.

Yes, I have a laptop computer, the energy use to run one is largely insignificant in the sceme of things and a single nuclear power plant or two could produce enough energy for everyone in this continent to run a laptop computer indefinately. Yes they take a toll to make, but if people would stop buying a new one every year or two insisting they need one a little bit quicker and trashing the old one, the industry could easily be sustainable. Personal computers are a low impact technology with great benefit. Personal cars and driving around for no good reason for example is a MASSIVELY HIGH IMPACT with very little benefit. I sold my car and now bike to work. I'm slowly reducing my impact and trying to spread consciousness to others that they might do the same. 

Don't shoot the messenger because he doesn't live in an African jungle habitat.

That's the whole point though. It's kind of all or nothing. You're either part of "consumerist" society, or you aren't.

The laptop is just one tiny example. A good economist could point out better than I could just how many insignificant things in your day have a huge toll on resources, or at least contribute to larger things that do.

Just by looking at this site, you're generating advertising revenue, and supporting the advertising industry in general, which is a large part of our economy.

I left cartoon network on in the background while i've been using the net. There's some anime show on right now (i'm not a big fan personally). All the characters are cartoons, but could be described as what most western people would consider "hot". This reinforces that notion of attractiveness to the people watching, both in how they look, and their clothing. This probably helps gyms to some small extent, and companies that sell diet products (diet coke, pepsi, low far oreos, etc), and makes people that don't fit the ideal feel bad about themselves. They probably cope with that either by eating more, joining weight watchers, or buying something else that makes them happy to forget that they feel bad about how they look compared to society's ideal.

This thread was about global warming and the environment originally, and kamikaze's disgust about the lack of anything being done about it. I think what I'm trying to get at is that the roots of all this are much more deep seated, and complicated.

I live in Palo Alto, CA. There are like, a zillion Priuses here. I see like 20 if I go ANYWHERE, even the grocery store a mile away. I bet all those people feel good about their Prius, and how they're helping be part of the solution. But the fact is, it's a stop gap measure that still uses the highway system, helps the car industry, doesn't promote mass transit, doesn't help cities get redesigned for not needing a car to get to places, and basically doesn't really solve the real "problem" of emissions, or dependence on carbon fuel sources.

One of the main highways around here is the 101. You take it to go just about anywhere. During rush hour (i think around 3 hours in morning, and the afternoon, according to HOV lane rules), you can't be in the 4th lane. To be honest, I think this just fucks up traffic patterns, and wastes a lane. The result is a faster moving 4th lane, that is not used to capacity, and thus the other 3 lanes get more crowded than they should be. So, cars move slower, go at slower speeds, in lower gears (frequently stop and go), and thus burn a lot more fuel. Plus, the presence of the HOV lane means that people that can enter it (cars with 2 or more people, or smug assholes in their Priuses) hop on the freeway, mess up traffic while merging over to the HOV lane (all the people doing this and lane changing cause everyone else to brake, which ripples, and slows a lot of people down), ride the HOV lane for a while til their exit, then cause the same effect merging 4 lanes back to their exit lane.

So, while the purpose of the HOV lane is to promote people to car pool (or drive hybrids, since that lets you in too), the real purpose was to reduce emissions, or fuel use. Does it do this? If you ask me, it does the opposite.

People are so caught up in what intuition tells them is "better" for society, but in reality, they're not really making a difference.

What would make a difference is if all of society as a whole was more educated, questioned things, made informed decisions, and understood these issues for real. Instead we get people that either are too dumb to give a shit, or waste a lot of energy on stop gap measures that don't do a lot in the long run.

Furthermore, what could REALLY make a difference is vast policy changes, that are mandatory, and need to come from the government. I'm talking re-organizing city layout, completely changing transit, etc. We mandate ethanol usage in fuel in America, when this is not efficient, and in fact, is hurting us, because putting 10% ethanol in our fuel requires more corn growing, shipping, and just makes the gas less efficient. The real reason it happens is because the corn lobby is so big in this country, not because of sound scientific reasoning.

So how do you fix the government forcing something to be done back asswards (such as caving to the corn lobby, because it helps them get elected?) That's right, better educate the population.

I feel like the environmental movement is the new war on drugs. We spend billions on fighting drug "crime", when drugs being illegal is what makes them expensive, which is what makes peopel commit crime to afford them, and what makes it profitable for gangs and other people to operate, and overcrowds our jails with "drug offenders", which wastes even more money.

Bottom line is that people need to look at the root causes or problems, and the real solutions. Only then will we make real progress. In the meantime, you'll have people driving Priuses while drinking bottled water that had to get shipped 100s of miles to them instead of drinking from their tap.

I think it's better for people aware of the issues to stick around and help others become more aware rather than ship themselves off to Africa never to be heard from again.

Right now, everyone in this country HAS to participate in the consumerism in order to stay alive. Even if you sleep on a patch of dirt and eat dandillions you have to pay taxes which ultimately leads to you being forced to participate in the consumerism to make money. We all have to make this change together and do everything we can to bring it about as soon as possible. Then we can create a viable alternative to killing the earth and stealing from our brothers.

Until then its kind of inevitable that we're all wound up in this mess and calling someone out for that doesn't make a point at all.

As to the rest of your post, I agree. Like I said..

Buying green is still BUYING.

For a deeper perspective into the problems we face in making this transition, see my thread...

https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/337169/

jesus christ dude keep your shit to yourself, no one wants your ideals pushed on them. and my 'mindset" bro, isnt doing shit. I care enough about the environment to not throw trash on the ground, you should be happy about that when most people just throw shit everywhere. But im not going to stop using my computer, tear down my house and live in the woods just because you tell me so. No no, thats bullshit; If you want to be one of these people, thats great for you, but thats not me, Ive been raised to reap the rewards this country has to offer.

I'm glad you don't throw your trash on the ground. But... where do you throw it? In the wastebasket? Where does it go from there? Does it go "away"? For that matter, what is "trash" anyway?

I don't think anyone's advocating a return to primitive lifestyles. What I'm advocating is the use of human intelligence (which I believe is capable of the task) in rethinking and redesigning our ways of life and the things we use so that we may continue to "reap the rewards" of modern society, without also reaping so blindly and so wastefully that we destroy the natural systems that make our reaping possible in the first place.

So no, I'm not telling you to stop using your computer and to tear your house down... although in the long run, the former would probably be good for your health, and the latter might lead you to building a new house using simple materials like rocks, clay and sand found on your property, a house that will be cheaper for you to build and maintain, won't require industrial logging efforts, will last longer than any of the clapboard piece of shit houses that are currently overtaking most of our country, won't contain harmful chemicals in paints, wood glues, solvents, sealers, or insulation, and will require a minimum of petroleum expenditure in its construction. Now THAT is what I'm talking about.

have you taken any climatology classes?

Thanks man, you've outlined what I've been trying to get at very clearly, and the example of the HOV lane is a great one. All in all I think you're right that education is the best way at getting to the root of the problem.

...Although, massive governmental intervention would certainly be helpful.

Kyoto pisses me off even more. StatsCan states that Canada produced 695 megatonnes of CO2 in 1999, increased by about 2.5% a year, leading to 806 megatonnes in 2005. We must get Canada to sign Kyoto ASAP I mean look at that number! It sounds so scary!

Oh but wait...what about China, the US and India. Together, they produced 12 024 megatonnes of CO2 in 2005...thats 14.9 times more than Canada. Canada is just a small blip in CO2 production. Anyone who feels Canada should sign it is absolutely fucking stupid. Once again like the thread creator said, they jumped on the bandwagon and it's so loud you can't even hear the band anymore. The band is screaming "KYOTO COSTS BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND THOSE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WILL MAKE AN EXTREMELY INSIGNIFICANT CHANGE TO THE WORLD!!! WE NEED THAT MONEY FOR BETTER THINGS!!! THINGS THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP OUR ECONOMY AND CITIZENS RATHER THAN DESTROY IT!!!!"

EVERYONE, PLEASE STOP ARGUING ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE OF HUMAN-CAUSED GLOBAL WARMING IN THIS THREAD. THIS THREAD IS INTENDED TO BE ABOUT HOW SENSELESS AND FUTILE THAT ARGUMENT ITSELF HAS BECOME, AND HOW IT CONCEALS THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND.


And now on a completely different note: If anyone here is interested in the issues we've been discussing in this thread and is at all intrigued in some of it, I am taking this moment to recommend a book to you: "Cradle to Cradle" by William McDonough and Michael Braungart. I don't agree with everything in this book, but I agree with most of it; and if you want to take part in this discussion, you'll be way better off—regardless of what your current viewpoints are—after you read it.

Solving "Global warming" is nothing more than wishful thinking in my mind. Our lifestyle depends on fossil fuel consumption. Sure we can reduce it slightly but we can't stop it...sorry Mr. Gore!

that's funny, did you see my post about that book ealier? I really liked the book.

correct me if im wrong, but when this whole global warming hooha started, the economy was going into the shitter, when this whole global warming shindig started, the economy instantly boosted from all the consumers buying eco-friendly shit, the way that the globe warms and cools is nothing new, its what cause the ice age. when humans werent even on the earth, the ice age happened, at this point the earth heated up, not because we spilled greenhouse gases into the air but instead because thats how the earth is supposed to react, it heats and cools continuously. ill tell you what fuck global warming is a scam if i havent convinced you read AN INCONVENIENT BOOK thatll be sure to do the trick

thats a nice thought, but the economy is still in the shitter, and its probably still going to get worse in the next couple of years. I don't think more efficient lightbulbs are a scam; I think you're delusional.You end up buying fewer lightbulbs in the end, which is the whole point. It's probly all that conservative literature you're reading, its fucking with your  head man. Secondly, humans have been around for roughly 10 ice ages, however we could always migrate to warmer parts of the world. Now, like 45 midget clowns in a VW beetle, we are packed to capacity on the planet, and what used to be fertile land is now stip malls and industrial plants. and the only thing that could possibly be worse is a bunch of people trying to convince themselves that the ship isn't going down, because we don't have any life rafts anyway.

NO, we can argue it if we want, if we want to call BS on it we will. Stop trying to limit free speech and telling us to go somewhere else to argue it. The fact that global warming is not made by humans is a  valid point and cant be ignored when we have people like you trying to shove this crap down our throats and tell us how to or how we should live our lives.

Yes, the text on an internet is coming out of the computer and magically going down your throat.

I just left Death Valley today. I'm writing from a best western in mesquite, NV. I will have many pictures to show of exactly what is so valueable to us, and is important to save when I return to seattle. I also have much more to write when it isn't quarter to three in the morning and i have to get up and drive at 7am.

Tonight I drove through Los Vegas. Another example of what we need to steer away from. If not the glutony and perversion of that city, the consumption it has. You've got the Lake Mead Dam, along with Hoover nearby, and one coal burning power plant at each end of the city. Ever wonder what makes that city twinkle like it does? LMD, and those coal burning electric plants are what run the city of lights...Yesterday the Colorado River Basin states(California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and Wyoming) signed an agreement because they're running out of water. Lake Powell and Lake Mead resivoirs are running at 50 percent. If they drop another 36 and 22 feet respectively, there won't be enough water to support the populations of those states. That is where some of the nations biggest farm producers are. You want to be able to do what you want becuase you're an American? Let me know how you do when you're starving.

Delphi - Enjoy big sky, because 10 years from now, it won't be snowing there like it does now. Big Mtn in Whitefish, MT had rain almost every day of december and january last year, your neck of the woods is next. You claim you won't be here for the world to warm up 1 degree, if you're say 10, you've seen it warm up nearly 3. So shut the fuck up until you have something intelligent to say.


Kamikaze - When you find a nice piece of land to build your earthen home on, let me know. I'll kick down on land and building it if you help me build mine.

The earth is in a warming trend yes, we have data to back that up. to say humans are the cause of it is not correct. we simply dont know, and to make us pay more taxes and to tell us what houses to build and cars to drive because of those faulty theories is insane.
This whole warming and cooling trend of earth has been going on looooong before we got here and to think we are responsible is arrogant and misguided.

So... having a 4000 square foot house with air conditioning on full blast in the summer, heating on all winter, water for the lawns that no one uses, energy guzzling appliances, 2 or 3 cars, most of them SUVs, all for 4.33 people, is a good thing, considering the limited quantity of resources available for the entirety of the world, most of which lives in abject poverty, even regardless of pollution and climactic influences we may be having?

You selfish bastard.

You've just hit the nail right on the head. Over a thousand of the worlds leading scientists on the intergovernmental panel on climate change are "arrogant and misguided" for putting out a report blaming the ever expanding footprint of the human economy for our sudden shift in global climate.

Let me put this into terms you may understand. The earth's population exploded in the past half century. We are at about 6.5 billion people today, and it won't be long before we hit 10 billion. With that comes a footprint from each person on this planet, some big, and some small.

The warming and cooling periods that happened over the course of geologic time were caused by the earths tilt, orbit, and wobble in relation to the sun, as well as other factors like asteroids every now and again. We group those factors into the atmospheric "sphere". There are a few other "spheres" that make up the earth, being the biosphere (living organisms), hydrosphere (h2o), and lithosphere (earth's crust).

But as of about 1970, scientists could no longer ignore the impact of human beings as a part of the biosphere, because they felt that we had as much impact as natural processes themselves did on the planet. So, the anthroposphere (human sphere) was recognized. And at the present, with populations far exceeding what they were in the 70's, and with emissions stemming from production being at much higher levels, AND knowing that given today's behaviors, the problem of humans exceeding their own carrying capacity and causing the earth irreversible harm is actually our next logical step... scientists are trying to make us aware that we DO need to change our everyday lives, for our own benefit, but mainly so that our children and their children will have an earth to live on.

Bottom line is, regardless of which side you choose to "believe" in this "debate", neither should dictate how you live your life. Either way, we need to generate new ways of maintaining our current levels of comfort without producing so much waste along the way, because it's flat out irresponsible of all of us to live the way we currently do. Step back and look at the world from a broader perspective.

Yup, and thats why in the 70's they thought we where headed for another ice age!!!! All i am saying this stuff is so hyped and if you buy inot it sooner or later you are going to be paying taxes to help solve this "prblem" that is all our fault.
Maybe youll understand when you get a real job and the government colletcts so much from your paycheck every week.
I think you might want to try and not look at it so narrow mindedly and look how this stuff is going to affect your future.

Don't talk down to me buddy. It was all I could do to avoid hammering you into the ground with that above post because this is precisely what I'm studying, but Jesus... you accuse me of being narrow minded, and recommend I start thinking of "how this is going to affect (my) future", when all you have on your mind is fucking government deductions from your paychecks, and taxes? Really? I'm being narrow minded? Fuck off.

Well its a good thing you don't drive cars and have a house made of mud and straw then.  Anyone who BUYS SHIT is a "neurotic consumer" then.

Dude chill.....you where the one starting it with your narrow mindedness remarks. All global warming guys like yoursef get our panties in a bunch when somebody comes with a different view because the fact is you have no facts to back up your claims of humans causing global warming.
And yes when you have a family of your own to support and the government is taking from your checks it will become a big deal,,,,believe me. (it might mean you have to stop doing something you love like......skiing!)