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I want your opinions on ski shops
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What would you guys want in a local ski shop? What sort of factors would make you want to go to the shop? What sort of environment would that shop have to have?
I wanna hear everything and anything. From prices to brands and entertainment and services...what does a good shop need for your business?
Remember I'm talking about a local shop in a ski town, perhaps on hill, either way its purpose it to be THE place to go.
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LISTEN TO THIS VERY CAREFULLY:
Here is why I frequently would rather buy online rather than in my local shop: The people in the shop, even the ones who ski and are very knowledgeable, act like douche-bag used-car salesmen, and they treat the customers like idiots.
Here is what they do that pisses me off:
1) Sleazy Pricing.
I research my purchases carefully and I know what the MSRP is on the items I'm going to buy. My shop has good prices, they are exactly MSRP (same as Getboards or Backcountry.com, so you don't even pay more at the shop), but they are MARKED much higher. So, I've been to the Line website and I know that Blends are supposed to cost $450 and I hate it when the salesperson comes over and says "those skis are soooo siiiick, they are $600 normally, but they're on sale today for $450! It's a great deal and you should take advantage." That is bullshit, they are $450 every day and using a sleazy sales tactic insults my intelligence.
2) Sleazy Sales Tactics.
Every time I try on a jacket, some female employee will pop out of somewhere and coo "ooh, that jacket looks soooo hot on you." Bullshit. I'll admit, the first time I fell for it. But after hearing that exact same line a couple times I got it: employees are told to say this every time.
So, the prices are good and the service is good, and they don't need to bullshit me to sell me stuff, I don't like feeling like I'm being lied to.
So that's my advice, have a relaxed and honest atmosphere. If I don't feel comfortable in a shop or if I feel like the people are trying to sleaze me into buying things, I will go to the internet.
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Id say Evo in Seattle (Evogear) is definitely doin a really good job. Bryce Phillips is THE man. When he is there he'll actually get to know his customers and converse with everyone. Free redbull, free stickers, tons of sales with super legit prices, hosting premieres, art gallery. Its the whole deal. Bryce gave me a pretty hefty discount on a pack that wasn't even on sale. dope dope dope
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I would have to say that the #1 reason why I end up buying online and not in a store is because i can save soooo much money online compared to most stores around where i live (michigan)
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for me the most important thing in a ski shop is good employees. I went into a shop the other day and met the new manager of the shop. I could see that he was really excited to be running the shop and that all of his employees were excited to be working for him, which is one of the reasons that I will be using that shop this season for tunes and other stuff.
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Cheap Drinks. BJ's you can get stuff for cheap
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carry all twintip company's have huge goggle selection like all the oaklyes and smiths and dragon and spy. have ski movies playin all the time and have the newest outerwear and for employees have people that everyone knows and someon that is chill. play cool music, not like zumies but just a chill atmosphere. it wuold also be cool to put like a jib outside your shop so kids could go sesh there after the mountain closes.
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wait so are you guys all talkin about Jibij Proshop?
It sure sounds like you are all describing Jibij word for word
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Most companies give an msrp and a map price to the dealers. The map is
as low as you can sell something at, until a certain date. Online
shops usually list MAP as their standard price, as it's realistic. But
lots of bigger shops will have things that say msrp, and then our
price, to make uninformed customers think it's a great deal. Generally
people shopping online have already checked prices, and know the MAP as
the standard price.
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Companies have no control over it. And yes, you see it all the time, almost every online retailer does it. Let's take a look at, say, the Prophet 100, just to standardize things:
Line website states that the ski costs $600, so we'll assume that is the MSRP.
Getboards: Price $600, "retail price $800"
Twitipnation.com: "our price $599, MSRP $800, save 25%!"
Backcountry.com: "Price: $599, Suggested Retail: $800"
So, all the online retailers are claiming to sell the ski "cheaper than retail." But guess what, they are selling for exactly retail. So people think that they are getting a deal, and this leads to the misconception that online retailers sell cheaper than shops.
But guess what these skis cost at my local shop: $599. Because that is the real MSRP
My experience has been that the only way to really save money by buying online is by buying last year's equipment in the sale section or the outlet section. This is the real reason people save money online. I can't go to my local shop and get last year's Prophet 100 for $499 because the don't have any old gear, but I can go to Getboards and get it for that price.
So here's my next idea for shops: don't throw all of last year's stuff out to outlet retailers, sell it yourself at a reasonable discount to win back some of the backcountryoutlet.com crowd. And DO NOT sell last year's stuff at no discount, even if the product hasn't changed significantly. My local shop is selling K2 Seth's for $629 (this is the SAME as Getboards or backcountry, even though those places claim to be selling for "less than retail")... but they are also selling last year's K2 Seth for $629, saying that the only difference is cosmetic (not even quite true) so the "value" of the ski is the same.
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mini pipe! or b-ball hoop could be
skate shoes
employees who are stoked
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Josh is right, I'm talking about the difference between MSRP and MAP prices. This gives the illusion of big savings, but as an educated customer all it does is make me think that the shop is lying to me.
Also, I think this gives people the impression that buying online is cheaper. Cheapest places you can buy (new gear) online seem to be backcountry and getboards (yeah yeah, and evogear and all the others, they're all very similar) because they all sell at MAP. But, my local shop sells everything at MAP too, so what's the difference? It's in the marketing, when people research online and see that "MSRP $800, our price $600," they get excited and they buy online, never even making it down to their local shop to see that it indeed costs $600 there too and they didn't save anything by buying online.
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I didn't say they were screwing anyone, I just said that this kind of sales tactic is a turn off for an educated customer like me.
When I go in the shop, the tag says $800(MSRP). The sales person comes up and says, today only, I'll give you those for $600(MAP). But I know that they never had any intention of selling the ski for $800, they tell every person that comes in every day that it's a special sale just for them and they can't get it anywhere else.
But this makes me LESS inclined to buy from them because it's almost as if they are trying to out-fox me into buying from them.
So, to reiterate my advice, if I had a shop and I wanted to sell at MAP, I would mark it at MAP and not fool around with this "their price, our price" bullshit.
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Look dude, I'm giving Ryno the advice he asked for, so quit the lecture on retail practices that I already know about.
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i like some of the old memoribilia shops have. throphys that are beer cans from strange events. unconventional prototypes that are just funny too look at. skis over 20 years old. pictures of places employees tearing it up everywhere. A wide selecton of skis, fat, skinny, the whole nine yards.ÂÂ
other then that people have already mentioned everything elseÂÂ
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yeah you know about them and so do most people that ski more than 3 times a year. how about you quit your fucking whining about how you don't like shops?
retail shops are in the business of selling their product not letting it sit there. any sales tools people have are fair game. no one is out to set someone up with the wrong product for the sake of moving a couple more units as you're making it sound. it's called business!
what's wrong with people putting the MSRP up a little higher and selling it a lower price? maybe if people didn't come in and immediately expect a discount because they're buying two $600 packages stores wouldn't have to do that.
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The point of the thread is "what would you like to see in a store." I wrote what I would like to see, and I never said I didn't like shops. Then, NomenSteven and I had an intelligent conversation about sales and pricing. Shit don't concern you son.
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Personally I never buy skis online. I go to a few shops larger shops in my area(ie. pacesetters in Edmonton) I go there because the newshool employees are great, they ski every say they don't work, but you have to hunt them out. then when I go to ski towns i generally go to shops that have great service(ie. totem ski shop in jasper, freewheel cycle in jasper, the guides hut in fernie or straight line in fernie)
Service is one of the most important aspects of a ski show. Get good employees and a good size shop.
don't try too hard, get enough companies that will fil the ski racks. try 3-5. good outerwear like HH, obermeyer, sun ice, ect. also get good accessories like giro, smith, spy, dakine, get a good selection of items but not like 40 different ski locks. and dont just sell skis, generally there is a snowboarder in the family or one that is a friend. sell boards and accessories.
get comfy couches and ski mags with a tv showing ski movies, this is good to keep people in the shop when staff are busy.
main thing is dont over do it, do it simple and well, sponcer riders/ events/ rails in the park. and dont treat people like we dont know anything.
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As far as brands go, I would carry as many as possible so you can draw every type of customer. The most important thing is to provide a friendly atmoshphere, a local feel, not a retail store kinda shop. Also, know what you are doing as far as tuning skis, i know many people that switch ski shops just because of rumors of bad tuning jobs.
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Sponsor local riders. Skiing is expensive otherwise.
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when you first walk in a big screen tv with ski movies playing to get pumed on skiing beofre you even see any skis some couches with some mags to read and for sale a boots section and a skis section etc... just to make buying stuff easier some good tunes playing.
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as for chill atomsphere the obvious like having movies playing a couch by the tv and music everywhere else in the store, carry all the major brands (armada, k2, line ect) and even snowboards. A great selection of outerwear would be killer all the sweet brands (sunice, oakley, HH, ect.) Also a large binding selection with all the jigs, especially the 4frnt jig. The staff would HAVE to be knowlageable on freestyle ski sizing, flex patterns, boot fitting ect. Oh and im not expecting them to sponsor anyone but that would be cool, but maybe buy 1-2 rails at the closest mountain and have their name put on it (new park features and advertising what more can ya ask for) They need to do full servicing and tuning. They have to have a large selection of goggles and gloves, and helmets and other accessories like daking bags, travel bags. Tons of wax and wax kits and tuning supplies also are needed. That about sums it up if i think of anything more i'll post it
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yeah if a shop would just sponsor alot of skiers and riders then hundreds of kids would come flocking in to try to get sponsored, just like small little sponsorships with small discounts.
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friendly shop guys that know their shit. preferably not old, bc they all tend to think twin tips are built for ignorant hot doggers. free stickers are nice too.
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im not sure about all you guys, but when i go into a shop i dont want to get help unless i ask for help, some shops wont leave you alone
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for me its all prices. i consider most ski equioment retardedly overpriced and so i pay as little as possible. ill order online even if it saves me 10 bucks, because i feel like a tool for droppin 500 on a pair of skis in the first place
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THe ideal ski shop needs to have a comfortable (everyone knows everyone) feel. Also i feel there should be ample room outdoors for a possible rail jam which would bring more buyers.
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Good, knowlegdable staff that have a personality....music that suits the atmosphere of the shop, have to have a little flat screen that provides you with up to date conditions of the closest mountains.
It just basically has to have a good atmosphere and staff that really know what they are talking about, not some punk ass kids that think they know everything but don't know shit all.
Sell reputable gear that is made by skiiers for skiiers or at least by companys that have been made for the snow like Orage or Line or K2....
You need a place that will not only just suit the up and comin park skiiers but also the "older" all mountain and racing skiiers.....most of all it just depends on what market you're aiming for
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I work at a pretty sick ski shop - that I think has a good vibe and shit.
The thing is that it is a pretty small shop, so we dont really have that much money to work with. It is hard to stock all of the brands we carry, because lots of times they dont see, and we end up blowing them out next year. This pisses lots of people off- they want to see it, and not have topwait for us to order it.
But hey, what can you do? there is only so much.
we try, and if you dont like your new setup, you can always return it.
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Honestly, I myself would be much more willing and apt to frequent and support a shop that was doing something for the local sport aside from getting the owner a pimp new BMW, or new Lexus SUV.
Too many ski shops around here have a rich owner, and put next to nothing back into the local skiing community.
I'll break it down to even smaller scale economics. Take a product like Red Bull. How many cheaper alternatives are there to Red Bull that do the same exact thing and have a similar taste? Lots. Now look at how well Red Bull continues to do within the skiing industry as far as sales and usage goes? Now also look at how much Red Bull does for the sport and how much goes back into skiing from Red Bull? Now yes, I am talking about a $2 can of drink, but the idea and principal remains the same.
If I knew that my money was going to have a return and be used to help further the local skiing scene, I'd be much more apt to be willing to spend the little bit of extra cash at a local shop.
Locally, the boardshops are doing a much better job at this than ski shops.
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It reminds me of my friend who, around the time we were graduating from
college, had a gotten a high profile business job and was looking to
buy a Land Rover. He went to the dealership and no one was helping him
because he looked young and they didn't think he was a serious
customer, so he walked to the middle of the showroom and shouted "WHO WANTS TO SELL ME A LAND ROVER???" and the salespeople came running.
I'm with Nomensteven on this one, people notice when they're not being helped.
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I've got this mental image in my head of a bunch of sleezy car salesman sprinting at him from all sides, throwing elbows and tackling each other while drooling and foaming at the mouth.
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Looks like I better get out helping custys faster- hahaha
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Haha, you scanned in my mental picture exactly as it had appeared.
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yeah, exactly, if you work in a shop, be helpful without being this guy^
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good atmosphere
chill people
couches
good brands
chill music
well rounded selection of skis and stuff
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The inputs have been super helpful people...please keep em coming!
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a mini pipe you can sesh in. My local skateshop has one and its so sick. You just go in with buds and have a little ride. But really I think the shop should encompass more than just skiing but also snowboarding. Attract both crowds. And since skiing is seasonal during the summer sell skateboards, ect. Have a chill shop that sells everything. That would be baller.
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i can tell you what i hate... when you walk into a shop and the vibe makes you think "im not cool enough" to be in here
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bump....i'm looking for more stuff :)
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i wish putting on bindings are cheaper
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COFFEE MACHINE, Movement skis, friendly people, fast and perfect service. T.V. with sick films and a beater couch= a ballin store.
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dub post= and Dalbello boots!
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oh and the crew needs to be nice.
workers more hip and responsive. i feel that the people are dicks sometimes if you tell them where to mount your bindings they will refuse and be like nooo I think - 3 is better for you
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Freeriderz in Whistler pretty much describes what I look for in a ski store. They carry most big newschool brands (excluding 4frnt). They have a really knowledgeable staff - they aren't afraid to center mount. They have ski movies playing, and a bunch of ski movies to buy (although they're pretty expensive). They always have some decent tunes playing, and the place is always full of other riders.
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someplace that carries all big brands and most smaller brands. this includes clothing and othe skiing equipment, not just skis. theu should be a place just to chill and hang out with friends. maybe even a small bar or somthing. just like drinks and stuff. it should have a dope repair shop and a the emploies are just like the customers. they are cool and just chill with the customers. none of the pushy ones trying to make you buy somthing. it shouldnt be just skiing either. have a skate sectiona and stuff. and it should make a local team and sponser some events and stuff.
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this has been alluded to, but the shop back in wisco i used to go to, i went because the owners were a big part of the store. they were the ones that were at the counter when you walked in greeting you, and they were also the ones who did the tuning on the skis. they knew all about their products, and really were genuinely nice and concerned about their customers. that sort of loyalty to the customer will inspire loyalty from many customers.
keeping it a ski-only shop would be cool to me, because it's what i know, but economically, that is silly. a lot of the things like helmets and gloves and the such are the same for snowboarding and skiing, as i'm sure you know, and by stocking some of the snowboard specific items (boards, boots, etc...), you could really increase your customer base, and kids who ride with skiiers and snowboarders would all be psyched on the shop
also, you may want to think about the seasonal aspect of the sport as it would relate to busy seasons. i'm not suggesting you sell patio furnature in the summer, but wakeboarding or something of that nature is a good summer alternative that encompasses many of the clientele that will be there in the winter too.
ps if anyone is ever in se wisconsin, check out the board shop in lake geneva. good shop. great owners.
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-chill vibe
-have a movie playing 100% of the time
-display the skis so they are easily accessible to look at and flex
-the shop should be involved in the skiing community such as at the closest mountain (contests, etc)
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solution to all your ski shop problems:
www.backcountry.com
www.tramdock.com
www.dogfunk.com
www.steepandcheap.com
www.whiskeymilitia.com
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still gotta pay a tech to do the work, and tech work is one of the few things which can't be bought online, so it's logical to charge a decent amount for mounting, whereas it is almost imperative to discount equipment now, due to online competition.
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i really really liked the way coloradofreeskiers shop was set up, real chill....they had a cool dog slow roastin by the door, all i bought was a t-shirt and they threw in a bunch of freestickers to go along. and they also have a online store.
i like shops where the people selling the stuff know what they are selling, even if i know just as much about the products, its comforting. also shop shwag with the cool shop logo on it is a must. and products ranging all price levels. .... so if i forget my poles/goggles/socks/gloves at home i can buy something cheap to get me by for the day
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