Government Run Universal Health Care

you just used government and "efficiency" in the same sentence.... are you off your rocker??

just look at "Katrina" welfare, and the list goes on...

In the wake of "katrina" private charities were way faster and more efficient than the government could ever hope to be...

if you want an example of how some forms of competition are good for the medical industry look at my previous post..


choosing doctors is a form of competition right??
I dont know about you but i want to be able to choose my doctor

Uh, I agree with you, we need to improve the way the government works?

And why should you choose a doctor? Unless you're going to have elective surgery, and prefer one guys face lift over another, I think we all want the same thing - the best available. Let me know next time you get a substandard doctor, but I think med school and residency does a fairly good job of weaning out failures. Taking competition out of the game would direct a lot more of your local hospitals money towards patient care instead of running commercials to attract more dying people. While I see some room for business like practices in healthcare, a system solely run as such would fuck over anyone making less than 100K a year, and waste more money that we are now.

Look, take the example of higher education. If all colleges were privately run, would all the people in college now be able to afford those prices? (and I know this is a shitty comparison, but its the best I can think of to relate this to something we observe. There are differences, I acknowledge them, so dont waste your time pointing them out, the general message is the same)

The swedish system is great. Just going to throw that out there.

ok read my other post, i have personal examples of how a substandard doctor can literally mean the difference between life or death...

"And why should you choose a doctor?" why should you choose anything then?? why not let the government choose for you??
i could rip this question to pieces but, im not going to take the time to go super in depth

ok here we go... choosing a doctor is very important and your life could depend on it, and if we are going to let the government choose that for us, then why not let the government choose what kind of car we drive?? choosing how you handle your health is more important than what car you drive right?
so as soon as you let the government choose that where does it stop?

Ok, lets also make it so you can choose what police officer comes to save your life when you're taken hostage in a bank robbery. Lets also have it so we choose what fire chief gets to oversee the situation when our house burns down.

Choosing needless shit like that just needlessly costs money and people's time. If you want to go to a doctor, sure, go sign up and see that doctor, and pay the bill for your choice. Nobody would stop you under that system, and if you've read what I've been saying, you'd still ideally have private practice to turn to if the government wasnt cutting it for you, just like our education system.

I'd honestly love to see what you have to say, but I am skiing tomorrow and need to study now for my finals. If this thread still exists in my mind come Tuesday, you may see a further discussion out of me.

so does this mean i won about the "doctors competing"??

i will admit that almost every time i read one of your political posts it makes me go nuts...
but i have the feeling that if you got us out on a mountain somewhere skiing we could have a good time..

so with that in mind im going to sleep, so i too can ski tomorrow, and i look forward to having another witty debate in another thread.

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/335347/
if you wanna go at it, here is one of my threads :)

No, you're still wrong, I just dont have the time to go over the fine details of why. Your posts do the same to me, and if you ever drop by WA, I'd be more than happy to show you around for a day.

you have no soul

ummm defenitly wrong on that front

thats all that needs said

Bullshit.  The pharmaceutical companies are taking advantage of the American people.  They say that the only way they can continue to develop new drugs is with the astronomical profits they achieve which just isn't true. 

Bullshit buddy.  I do have an idea of what I'm talking about.  Every single thing you wrote I've heard before.  I spent half of last semester in class where we looked at how the Pharmaceutical companies operate.  So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.  You've clearly been influenced by your parents.  Maybe you should try thinking on your own for once.  Price regulation would happen if the pharmaceutical companies didn't have so much lobbying power.  Oregon and Maine I believe have both put price regulations into effect only to be sued by pharmaceutical companies to have the laws overturned.  This is complete shit.  These companies shouldn't have the power to influence the government but you know what they say "money talks" .  I know drugs are massively expensive to produce and that a very small fraction of drugs make it to market.  However I also know that many companies spend nearly as much money on marketing their drugs as they do on developing them.  As far as the FDA goes they aren't exactly mother Terresa.  They are influenced by the Pharm. companies and their money just like everyone else.  Some companies are hurting but the big ones are still turning profits that are higher than those achieved in just about any other industry in the world.  So pardon me if I don't have sympathy for their situation.  There is also the issue of much cheaper generic drugs.  The big pharmaceutical companies use their reps to put pressure on doctors to only use their higher priced drugs.  As a result drugs that are much cheaper and could be afford by lower income families don't get prescribed. 

My main issue is with why drugs sold all over the world cost much much more in the U.S. than they do in any other market.  In countries with socialized medicine the government pays for the drugs so they have the ability to keep the prices reasonable.  If you think you really know what you are talking about then tell me why people in the U.S. deserve to pay much more for drugs than anyone else. 

I said the pharmaceutical companies are crooks, as a whole.  I never said anything about about everyone who is associated with them being a crook.  I'm sure there are at least ten or twenty honest people somewhere out there.  Haha.

I never said anything about the system disappearing I just think there should be some price regulation so that people are charged a fair an reasonable amount for drugs they need.  Oh and there aren't millions of jobs provided by the pharmaceutical companies.  Try thousands.  

Haha call it bullshit if you will, but it's the truth. Despite what you may believe, I have a very different perspective than my parents on many things.

While you may have taken a 'class' on pharmaceuticals, I've actually WORKED there. So, I'd take my personal, inside experience over your professors views any day. We had alot of information on the different monetary aspects of the companie, their net gains and losses, production costs, so on and so forth. And please, I'd love to hear your view on how 'pharmaceuticals operate' cause I'm sure in actuality you know little on the inner workings of the MNE corporation like Pfizer.

We probably shouldn't have to pay more than other countries, true, but we are also the wealthiest country. It's just how the system works. If you actually read what i wrote, I never called the FDA 'mother theressa' either, in fact, I said they are quite corrupt and need reform, however, they actually do have a decent system for prescription drugs. The only real downfall to companies is how the patent system works. The reason the pharmaceutical industry makes so much money is because EVERYONE needs prescription drugs, it's just how it works. It's a big money making industry, but lately it has been falling, and quite dramatically.

In fact, over the past few years the #1 pharmaceutical (Pfizer) has had quite a steep decline in their profits and their stock values. They have actually fallen over 50%. So please, do a little more research, and understand how the system actually works from the inside and out before calling all my information bullshit. And I'm not entirely trying to stick up for the Pharmaceutical Industry, because I really hate it, and it has fucked up my family quite a bit, but there are some crucial details you really should know.

And there may not be 'millions' of jobs provided by the pharmacy industry, but Pfizer has about 140,000 employees, just by themselves, I'd consider that a little more than just a few 'thousands' considering that is just one company. Granted, they have cut about 40,000 over the past few years, but that's still alot of jobs.

The class was an accounting class but the prof decided to take it upon herself to turn it into a business ethics class.  A lot of the material presented was from outside resources so it wasn't just her opinion.  I feel like I do have a good understanding on the basics of the industry.   Granted I'm sure I don't have the knowledge that you do on the matter.  I do check stock quotes regularly and I  realize that many of the companies aren't doing so hot.  However there are  a select few companies who make big heaps of money.  Maybe if they didn't all spend so much money on marketing they could be more profitable and lower their prices.  My issue is simply with the price charged for drugs in this country.  I just don't think it is fair how much more Americans pay for drugs. 

you have no idea about economics do you? it's not one sector then another. when accounting all jobs that are affected and associated with pharmaceuticals, it reaches higher than a number you can think. and kid youve been pwn3d already by people that KNOW what theyre talking about. take your preaching bullshit and save it for your next ron paul circle jerk.

would you like to expound on that vague comment?

because so far I have pretty good example of why choosing your doctor(competition) is a good thing

its a great idea, but we alll know that iw will never happen in this country.

Get fucked you little prick.  I'm not some kid.  I'm 24 and a semester away from getting a marketing degree from one of the best business schools in the northwest.  So I probably know a lot more about economics than you.  I haven't been owned by anyone who knows what they are talking about.