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This just in: commissioner confirmation: patriots are cheaters.

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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
A representative for the Pats was found to be video taping the Jets' defensive signals.

what do you guys think the punishment should be? or what do you think it will be?
Sep 11 2007 6:24PM
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TheMajesticLife
Posts: 940 - Karma: 495
damn
Sep 11 2007 6:24PM
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860
Posts: 2930 - Karma: 166
What can they use it for, are they going to relay signals fast enough for each play? It'll blow over and they'll probably get fined, the pats are still the best team in the NFL
Sep 11 2007 6:26PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
oh also, although they said kevin everett had a 5% chance of walking again, now they're saying prognosis is good that with months of rehab he will be able to, they're now saying "most likely"


didnt want to make another NFL thread, so thought id throw that in here
Sep 11 2007 6:27PM
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mistaskia
Posts: 1252 - Karma: 32
it really doesnt matter the pats are still going to own. even though this may be true, they pats still outplayed the jets in every aspect of the game. And dont say its because they new the defensive plays. the pats were goin to win anyway.
Sep 11 2007 6:30PM
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ski72685
Posts: 322 - Karma: 11
yah..just watched the news here in buffalo..they said there were some good signs today...he was able to have some movement in his arms and legs but it is still not an indicator of anything just a good sign..they said he could still lose all movement and also still has a chance of losing his life. hopefully it will all be good in the end
Sep 11 2007 6:36PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
i was asking people what penalties they think there should be or will be for a team video taping other team plays.

can you guys get your head out of your ass and pretend for a second its a team that you dont passionately love, and have an objective view? i wasnt really looking for responses like

"who cares!!!! PATS PWN NOOBS"

also watch this commerical, because it PWNS NOOBS!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55BZ2gSsSmY
Sep 11 2007 6:38PM
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Eazy_Eags
Posts: 2227 - Karma: 14
.
Sep 11 2007 6:39PM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
Even if they are recording signals, anyone can watch TIVO..and just put a close eye on their defense...and plus they get game tapes to watch anyway..so i am sure that they have them already and this will blow over...patriots pwn newbs anyway
Sep 11 2007 6:40PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Here's the update on Everett's condition...

http://www.wivb.com/global/story.asp?s=7059077

The Doctor is looking much more optimistic.

"And Tuesday, Dr Cappuccino says, "We may be wittnessing a minor miracle." He said that because, today, Kevin Everett was able to voluntarily move his arms and legs, a marked improvement over yesterday. He also noted that the MRI scan taken after the surgery showed only a small amount of swelling in the cord. Those are both good signs."
Sep 11 2007 6:41PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
so why do it?

also its a second offense, because they did it with green bay last year.

and it isnt a matter of how helpful it is, or whether they can do it by using TIVO, its the fact that its against the rules of the league.
Sep 11 2007 6:41PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
oh also, for those of you who dont see it as being an advantage, tune into ESPN right now, up next they're having an in-depth segment on the advantages of taping another teams signals, and what affects it has.

If you guys don't watch it, im going to, and i'll update with a post on what they say.
Sep 11 2007 6:44PM
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jimmychung
Posts: 6857 - Karma: 25
i love my team, but that's dumb. like it has been said before, i don't think it would actually have any influence on any game, but it's still stupid and the dude should get a nice slap on the wrist for that.
Sep 11 2007 6:53PM
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HeathR
Posts: 4357 - Karma: 1,379
I dont think there will be any repercusions for this.

I am a pats fan i think that it is really bullshit that they do that. If they are as good as they look then why do they need to do that. It certainly looked like they knew what the jets were doing on defense on every play. Or maybe they are just that good and the jets were that bad.
Sep 11 2007 7:01PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Well, think about it, you videotape the Jet's signals. Not only can you decipher defensive decisions for the rest of the game, but you can easier predict their playcalling in the future matchups with the team later in the season.

It's pretty low IMO.
Sep 11 2007 7:07PM
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sktrkdo7
Posts: 1920 - Karma: 182
its well known that all professional sports teams use every possible edge they can get im not saying it was right but this definitely isnt the first time that this has happened the pats should just fire the dood. this will blow over anyway pats still gonna have a 16-0 season
Sep 11 2007 7:09PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
ok so im just going to type out what they say as they go:


jets coach: "you hear, rumors of things of that nature [patriots taping], its nothing new, in terms of confirming it, its never been confirmed, those rumors are founded on something, so its not totally shocking no. usually where theres smoke, theres fire."

most likely punishment: draft choices taken away from the patriots. they say the punishment will be severe. predictions include taking away multiple draft choices. either:

-2 first day picks
-one first, and one second
-one second, and one 5

why hasnt it come out before if theres always been rumors of patriots cheating?: no evidence.

Rumors started when people were suspect of how bill belichick knew all of the plays during the superbowl.

the tapes were reviewed and it shows they were checking specifically on defensive signals.

advantage: making adjustments. if you have the opposition video taped, you can go in after first quarter, determine what signals are associated with what blitz patterns and make adjustments accordingly. NFL announcer says "its considered a huge offensive advantage, its stealing games"


*the above is not my opinion, but an overview that i typed while watching the ESPN segment on the issue.


Sep 11 2007 7:26PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
fire him?

im pretty sure he was hired, and directed, to do so.
Sep 11 2007 7:27PM
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HeathR
Posts: 4357 - Karma: 1,379
of course he was. But it is easy to make somebody lower take the fall. Im sure they could get somebody to just say they were doing it on their own. The partriots are preety smart and trickey.
Sep 11 2007 7:34PM
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Mod
Posts: 3179 - Karma: 11
The punishment should be giving Tom Brady to Cleveland
Sep 11 2007 7:36PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
Charlie Frye of the Cleveland browns was just traded to my beloved seattle seahawks.

so now, we have hasselbeck, and charlie as our backup QB. Great news for me/us, because I'm guessing that now, Seneca wallace will receive playing time as a Wide Receiver, and that brings a smile to my face cause he's my favorite player.
Sep 11 2007 7:39PM
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Mod
Posts: 3179 - Karma: 11
Who'd cleveland get in return?
Sep 11 2007 7:49PM
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guillermolongjon2
Posts: 648 - Karma: 10
who cares pats pwn noobs
Sep 11 2007 7:52PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
defensive end bryce fisher. he will be missed (seriously), but he wasnt a starter i dont think, so oh well.
Sep 11 2007 7:53PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
im still pissed off that janet jacksons tittie lost my panthers the superbowl.
Sep 11 2007 8:01PM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
damn.
whatever, frye will do well and we need someone better than wallace to replace hasselback.
Sep 11 2007 8:06PM
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Nicholas.
Posts: 10905 - Karma: 60
the pats are queer anyways, and i live in NE. now i get to hear all their fans defending them, fucking great.
Sep 11 2007 8:10PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
ok, u had to know i was gonna come in here n say somthin snobunny :)


first of all, its a stupid rule that shouldnt be in the league, like stated before, any1 could just watch game film and see it.


second, thats exactly wat it is, they are watching film. the whole reason for watchin film is to figure out wat the other team is gonna do, they just figured out how to do it. figuring out signs is just part of the game. if u dont like the other team doing it, then change ur signs dumbass and dont keep the same ones. its just logic right there


third, its not like outa the blue the pats played well and picked up blitz's and brady didnt get tackled and had a lot of time in the pocket. they do it almost every game and have been for numerous seasons now. and i havnt heard anything on a packers game from last year, all thats been officially stated is this past jets game.



fourth, unless they have film taken from the camera the guy was using, its kinda hard to prove it. tell me theres not other cameras on the sidelines lookin at coaches and such. hell, a tv reported could just sit there and go hey he did this, it means they're doin this. if somethin does come of it, then itl be a basis for later rulings, and every1 with a camera, headset, or anything else will be checked to make sure they aren't cheating. hell the owner of the team could sit in his box office with binoculars and watch wat the coaches do, or he could just be watchin the game. from that far away you wouldnt be able to tell. if the nfl does anything remotely serious about it i highly doubt it will be during this season, and if they do then there's gonna be so many circumstances where it can be avoided and how its happened in the past with many teams, and how theres tons of ways to do this even if they did get caught, itd still go on. its just stupid.



espn is talkin so much bs about how its so stupid and they are gonna get fined n have draft picks taken away and penalized games wen they have no idea wat they're talkin about. and honestly, go ahead, take 2 draft picks away from the pats, its really not gonna make much of a difference. so many players are released by teams after the draft and before regular season that if they need some1 for a position they can get some1 with the right build and teach him. its already obvious that the pats coachin staff is very good and can coach rookies into great team players.



end of story. feel free to go against me, but ul prolly just get shut down
Sep 11 2007 8:13PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
my bad. the browns traded charlie frye in return received an undisclosed draft pick.

bryce fisher was sent to tennessee today as well. was confused.
Sep 11 2007 8:18PM
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lushlaxstr
Posts: 3063 - Karma: 41
who cares?
Sep 11 2007 8:19PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
people that watch football?
Sep 11 2007 8:22PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
firstly, yes..i was wondering where you were.

secondly, heres what i read about the green bay incident:

"It's not their first time," a member of the committee, who did not wish to be identified, said.


In fact, Green Bay Packers president Bob Harlan confirmed a similar incident that occurred when the Patriots played at Lambeau Field last Nov. 19. The same cameraman who was questioned by NFL security on Sunday was also the one whom the Packers removed from the sideline and escorted from the field during their 2006 game, according to Packers security official Doug Collins.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Harlan said. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

found here: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

and, that's why i posted this thread, is because it was an unconfirmed rumor that the pats had taped the jets' defensive signals, but i posted this right after it was announced that the commissioner had confiscated the tape, reviewed it, and apparently it was all zoomed in coverage of defensive signals filmed with a telephoto lense.

and im not going to go up against you, i dont think you really said anything worth arguing. certainly nothing riled me up.
Sep 11 2007 8:27PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
closed italics for you...



nuthin riled u up cause its just a stupid arguement. and now the packers are gonna come out n go "oh we were lookin for it and kicked him out cause we had heard about the pats doin somthin like that" no shit some1s gonna come out n say that. guaranteed they got money for the story.


and just cause this one guy got removed, how many other cameramen are there on the sideline seriously. theres so many other ways to get away with it. to even bring this up was a stupid idea cause now teams are gonna have scouts everywhere. hell you see how much money teams have, they'l pay a blimp pilot to sit on top of the stadium with a camera and watch, and like i said, the owner of the team could just look thru binoculars and see the same thing.


another question: wtf was he taping it for, all they needed to know is wat the signal was, there was no need for recording it...unless for a later game, but they obviously know wat some signs are before the game.


and why do u think coaches cover their mouths with the plays wen they call em? wait, so they cant read their lips and know the play beforehand. its basically the same thing
Sep 11 2007 8:36PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
"how many other cameramen are there on the sideline seriously."

The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.

wtf was he taping it for?

ok, imagine they tape it, at the end of the first quarter, they review the tapes, the tapes show them the signals, followed by the formation, followed by the execution of the play. its a way bigger advantage to be able to freeze frame and review, and see things you wouldnt have seen with the naked eye during a high speed game.

and why do you think coaches cover their mouths with the plays when they call em? wait, ..."

im not an idiot.

I mean, i just think its a dirty thing to do. just follow the rules, why even do something that would question the intergrity of your organization and put you under the microscope for everything else? just unnecessary.
Sep 11 2007 8:50PM
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ski_powpow
Posts: 1247 - Karma: 1,200
oh thats rough, there a good team thats just bad play
Sep 11 2007 8:51PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 26
lame.
Sep 11 2007 8:51PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
"The rule is that no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game."

but people are recording it...theres tons of people right next to the field. ok its not like i dont agree that they broke the rule, but its a stupid rule and is so easy to break. also, each team has their own tape of the game...they dont use the "cbs" version or w/e. im pretty sure the team records it. the rule is very vague and can be interpretted many ways.


as for reviewing the tape later in the game to see their calls, its not like all of a sudden in the second half the pats were playin offense. they went into the second half with 21 pts, thats good enough for a whole game most of the time. but i do see how it can be used as an advantage



and my point still stays about the coaches covering their mouths. you honestly cant look across the field at the other coach and read his lips to see wat hes calling, esp with all the distractions at a game of that level. the only way would be for some1 to be lookin thru a camera or binoculars. whether u see them calling a play verbally or with hand signals makes no difference, both u cant see from across the field with the naked eye, yet they still hide both. the pats simply watched wat they were doing.



if the nfl came out and said no-more of that then thatd be fine, but to punish the pats wen its obvious other teams do the same thing to read plays is just stupid. they wont do anything major, if anything at all.
Sep 11 2007 9:02PM
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PilleDaKid
Posts: 3193 - Karma: 2,629
Well the jets are my favorite team so im kind of pissed to here this but kind of happy. Pissed because theres a possibility the jets could have one if this didnt happen, who knows. Happy because I know the jets didnt get crushed straight up...the other team cheated sooo idk probally nothing will happen its not that much of a biggie.
Sep 11 2007 9:32PM
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hart62
Posts: 352 - Karma: 10
I just lost so much respect for the Pats. I've been a fan of theirs my entire life, and this is just disappointing. The worst part is that they don't even need to cheat. Sure, knowing the defensive plays helped them win, but they still had to play well, especially on defense. Even if you know exactly where a linebacker is going, that doesn't make it any easier to block him. Or for Ellis Hobbs to run a kick return back 108 yards for a touchdown. Shame on Belichick for being a cheater.
Sep 11 2007 9:47PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
"I just lost so much respect for the Pats."

"Even if you know exactly where a linebacker is going, that doesn't make it any easier to block him. Or for Ellis Hobbs to run a kick return back 108 yards for a touchdown."


you just said both of those, and they contradict eachother. if it barely makes a diff if u know where some1s gonna be, then why'd u lose "so much" respect for the pats. that just doesnt make sense. you guys arent even reading the thread. its not like they are gettin this huuuuge advantage, they're doin the same thing asif u read the coaches lips wen he calls a play, hense the reason they cover their mouths, lookin at hand signals is the same thing and both you cant do with the naked eye. coaches know the other team can read wat they are saying if they dont cover their mouths and its cause some1 has somthin zoomed in watching and thats why they cover up, same reason they try to hide hand signals.







this is on the bills player, they say he should walk again

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7216176?MSNHPHMA>1=10437
Sep 11 2007 10:31PM
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t-roy
Posts: 4041 - Karma: 52
toss the whole team in with vick, i don't care.
Sep 12 2007 12:12AM
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kingarthurs
Posts: 1126 - Karma: 10
about time, i fucking hate the pats. the penatltie should be stiff, i have no sympathy for cheaters, especially the pats. fuck the pats, belicheck is a fucking tard.
Sep 12 2007 12:17AM
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HeathR
Posts: 4357 - Karma: 1,379
6th round pick. nothing really
Sep 12 2007 10:43AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
"Green said the key was the quick action taken by Cappuccino to run an ice-cold saline solution through Everett's system that put the player in a hypothermic state. Doctors at the Miami Project have demonstrated in their laboratories that such action significantly decreases the damage to the spinal cord due to swelling and movement.

"We've been doing a protocol on humans and having similar experiences for many months now," Green said. "But this is the first time I'm aware of that the doctor was with the patient when he was injured and the hypothermia was started within minutes of the injury. We know the earlier it's started, the better.""

Pretty awesome that they are now maybe finding ways to treat spinal cord injuries...
Sep 12 2007 11:07AM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
yeah i know i read that! some saline solution pumped in around the area that cools the blood to 92 degrees and acts as an instant on-site ice pack.

leaps and bounds...
Sep 12 2007 1:24PM
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Luckyscs
Posts: 518 - Karma: 11
Why do refs and the rest of the NFL hate the ravens?
Sep 12 2007 1:29PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
haha. psh. they called one of the good bengals' catches incomplete also.

plus didnt they give the ravens 1st and goal, by calling holding on the bengals.
Sep 12 2007 2:19PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
not every1 hates the ravens like that, they are just a good team


my mom told me about the ice thing, pretty sweet, they've been workin on it since reeve's accident. good to hear hes doin well.



now back to the topic. i was just watchin nfl live and they dont think its that big of a deal. they pointed out that wen they played, teams were tryin to get the edge on another team all the time, including breaking a lot of rules.

they also pointed out wat i said earlier, why do u think coaches cover their mouths? you cant see wat the coach is sayin from the other side of the field, obviously people are doing the same thing as wat the pats did

they stated that it really isnt that much of an advantage, and with the time they have to see the sign, watch it, know it from previous plays, determine wats gonna happen, tell the coach, then tell the qb, is way too long. they'd only be able to do it every 3rd or 4th play and just barely. brady isnt one to roll down the clock on every play either, he plays at his own fast speed.

again, they said its barely an advantage, and clearly the jets woulda lost anyway. its not as big of a deal as every1 thinks and is gettin blown totally outa proportion. the commisioner might fine the pats cause they did break the rule about having a camera on the field, but thats basically it. its highly doubtful he'l take away any of their 1st round picks for next year. all this from past nfl players
Sep 12 2007 4:36PM
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Sno.
Posts: 12155 - Karma: 6,147
yeah i watched it too. i guess we'll find out what happens probably on friday.

Sep 12 2007 4:39PM
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ryan.c
Posts: 6592 - Karma: 14
oh and i forgot to say this:


again, like i already stated before. if you think some1 is stealing ur signs, then fucking change them!!! the espn/past players said that people are always discovering ur signs so they are changed constantly, atleast every week, sometimes mid-game. if they were that worried about it then change them.
Sep 12 2007 4:43PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,012
they said that the punishment could be a loss of a draft pick
Sep 12 2007 4:52PM
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