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HD

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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
if i buy an hd camera, Sony Handycam HDR-HC3, does it eat up hard drive memory, does each vid take up much more space then you average wal-mart cam, because it's HD?
Jul 12 2007 10:25AM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,016
Also what about 3ccd
Jul 12 2007 11:02AM
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Rajna
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 90
i wouldnt go with the low cost HD cameras cuz i dont really like the colors that they produce in the video. I also heard they dont do very well in low light conditions. They also lack alot of the manuel features that you get get with other 3ccd cameras. check out the panasonic gs500 or gs400. they are basically in the same price range as the HDR-HC3(sp?) but have  some  more  features like the focus ring and whatnot.

HDV files do take up a lot of space and you have to have a pretty sick computer to edit and render that shit from what ive heard.
Jul 12 2007 11:21AM
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Rajna
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 90
also keep in mind you could grab a vx2000  used in pretty good condition for like $1600. that is if you want to invest the extra money.
Jul 12 2007 11:22AM
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SIX
Posts: 4595 - Karma: 506
www.skateperception.com

this forum should help you out a lot.
Jul 12 2007 12:28PM
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PhilBenjamin
Posts: 346 - Karma: 10
Pretty much the same filesize ad DV, Bigger picture, more compressed to fit limitattions of the tape.About HDV

HDV (High Definition Video) is a new video format that allows you to record high-definition video onto standard DV media (such as mini-DV tape) using a supported consumer-priced camcorder. You can connect an HDV camcorder to your computer through FireWire—just as you would with a DV device—to capture and output footage.

HDV uses MPEG-2 compression to achieve a maximum video data rate of 25 Mbps (megabits per second), which is the same data rate as DV. This means you can fit the same amount of high-definition video on your scratch disks as you can when using DV.


Jul 12 2007 2:15PM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
If using a 3ccd camera, I havent noticed that great of difference of size of files, But I would go with a nice 3ccd camera, like vx2100 or gl2 or dvx100 or sumtin along that lines before you get an hd cam..if you get an hd cam get a real one, thye are like 6000 but worth it.
Jul 12 2007 2:30PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 268
yeah hdv is poopy, just get a good 3ccd and it will be much better.
Jul 13 2007 11:30PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
yeah word, waste of money
Jul 13 2007 11:37PM
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Shorton
Posts: 2889 - Karma: 13

agreed

Jul 14 2007 2:38PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,947
yea dude, just make sure your comp can handle the extra color/imaging...that is a factor to image quality, is it not?
Jul 14 2007 3:48PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
HDV doesnt mean better color at all. It just means sony uprezzed their VX series and called it HD when its not even progressive, and its recorded on dv. You cant have HD on dv, period. Yeah its a cheap substitute that will awe soccer moms but that doesnt mean its in the same catagory as actual HD cameras like the Sony XD or the HVX200

for instance, the Panasonic DVX has better image than a Sony FX1 in my opinion because it has WAY better colors, and its not even HDV. Its an SD cam. Resolution for home-viewed videos is overrated in my opinion. The only things its good for excluding blowing up is doing computerized pans in post, which look really weird and almost never work.

Unless my digital video is constantly being projected onto a 15 foot tall screen, I see no reason to use HDV at all.


Now HD is another story...
Jul 14 2007 5:22PM
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Henry
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 41
HDV and DVCPRO-HD are both variants of HD. Neither one is said to be superior.

HD has much better resolution primarily due to the really good lens that typically accompanies an HD camera.

Jul 14 2007 6:53PM
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lunchmeat
Posts: 922 - Karma: 227
where do you learn this stuff?
Jul 14 2007 7:59PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I really think there is no "official" HD. Like some people call 720i HD, some call 1080i HD; everybody has different standards.

My personal idea of HD is 1080 lines of resolution or higher, and it MUST be progressive or it looks like shit. But thats just a personal preference.

I also think anything with 4:2:2 color sampling isnt HD, but then again Im a picky camera snob.

Don't listen to me kids.
Jul 14 2007 9:32PM
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AdrenalineGarage
Posts: 261 - Karma: 244
Actually, HDV takes up no more space on a hard drive than DV. This is not true of DVCPRO HD. The following is from the Apple Final Cut Pro site:

"HDV uses MPEG-2 compression to achieve a maximum video data rate of 25 Mbps (megabits per second), which is the same data rate as DV. This means you can fit the same amount of high-definition video on your scratch disks as you can when using DV."

As to whether DVCPRO HD is better than HDV, it's a lot more complicated than Tanakaskier implies. HDV is a compression codec, just like DVCPRO HD. Compression codecs find similiarities inside a frame (intraframe compression) and delete the duplication to free up space. Unlike DVCPRO HD, HDV also deletes the duplication in different, consecutive frames (interframe compression). This, technically, allows HDV to have the same quality image with a smaller file size and data rate.
Jul 15 2007 6:04PM
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Henry
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 41
From what I've read, HDV is said to have advantages with moderate motion for 720p24. At 720p30 HDV and DVCPRO-HD are said to be equal. While DVCPRO-HD has advantages with moderate motion at 1080i60.

I'm not sure how acurate that is tho.
Jul 15 2007 6:29PM
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peterdermeter
Posts: 4 - Karma: 31
i bought a Canon hv20 and i love the image quality.
check out my clip
http://rapidshare.com/files/39712905/hm_ja.mov
shot in 1080i and color corrected in fcp.
unfortunately i have only these shots, cause i got the camera two days bevore the season was over.
Jul 16 2007 12:50PM
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Henry
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 41
That looks pretty good. cool lil edit too.
Jul 16 2007 2:48PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
camera-ing is tuff buisness
Jul 16 2007 11:43PM
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tha_CF
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 328
ive recently converted from loving hdv to loving dvx quality, i almost have enough for one!
Jul 16 2007 11:57PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
well yippie-doo!
Jul 16 2007 11:59PM
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tha_CF
Posts: 1696 - Karma: 328
yeaa dvx colors are pretty!!

haha seriously though, i dont have near enough for progressive hd, so its not worth it right now, and in the last month ive become obsessed with colors, and i think some of my new shots are better then my friends v1u!
personal opionion tho
Jul 17 2007 12:06AM
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horner
Posts: 2439 - Karma: 1,578
if you're going to by a consumer HDV cam, screw the HDC and go with the HV20. It's an amazing little camera for the price.
Jul 18 2007 3:58AM
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[steez]wrecka18
Posts: 232 - Karma: 45
Here's basically the order of cameras you should be looking to buy, in order.

Canon Optura 20
Sony TRV900
Sony VX2/VX21
Panny DVX
Panny HVX

Don't even consider an HDV camera, waste of money on a camera that costs as much as a DVX anyhow.

How do you learn about cameras and filmmaking? Lurk Skateperception, DVXUser, etc and become literate in film terminology and cameras.
Jul 18 2007 4:16AM
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[steez]wrecka18
Posts: 232 - Karma: 45
Btw, add in the Panny GS series next to the TRV900 in terms of what to buy.
Jul 18 2007 4:19AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Horrible resource in my opinion. A bunch of 13 year olds who dont know what the hell they're doing. Its like non-ski gabber for cameras.

DVXuser.com is the best one in my opinion.
Jul 18 2007 2:58PM
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Henry
Posts: 2013 - Karma: 41
for sure, also dvinfo.com has really good information on technical stuff
Jul 18 2007 6:50PM
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[steez]wrecka18
Posts: 232 - Karma: 45
Believe me, I totally agree with you. But there are some really helpful articles on there. I mean, that's where I learned pretty much everything I know about filming (outside of all that crap that comes with, you know, experience). It's still real helpful for kids who want to get into filming and everything, but I never go on there anymore for the same reasons you mentioned..
Jul 18 2007 7:18PM
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PhilBenjamin
Posts: 346 - Karma: 10
DVCPRO-HD is far superior in terms of image quality (color sampling) than HDV and we're not even going to get into progressive and overcranking features DVCPROHD has.
Jul 20 2007 2:15PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
wow...i own an HDV cam and love it. Alot of companies still film with it. Why does it matter if your not shooting w/ true HD at the moment? No ski film companies are actually making HD DVD's yet. Everything gets so compressed and is encoded that its not HD anyways.

The fx1 is a great camera. I would reccomend it to anyone. Yea its not true HD. But it does shoot 1080i. Everyone loves the HVX, yeah its pretty cool, i like it and would buy it if i had the money. But, even the hvx doesnt shoot true HD. if you were to actually shoot in 1080i on the hvx, i've read and heard from numerous people that it actually stretches the same image from 720.

Every camera says it can do more, and that its better than it truely is.

What it comes down to at the end of the day is what camera do you like using?

Its like skis, everyone has a preference. Yes some do have superior features and quality. Shoot with a bunch of different cameras, and find the one you like the settings and functions on the best and shoot on that camera.

But alot of people dont have parents that will fork out thousands of dollars to get them the greatest gear and cameras. I feel HDV is worth it. But thats my opinion. It has its weaknesses, but it hasnt failed me yet.
Jul 20 2007 2:31PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
if i'm wrong about the stretching from 720 to 1080 on the HVX make me aware of it, but i've talked to a few people in hollywood, that would probably know...so again correct me if i'm wrong cuz i very well could be.
Jul 20 2007 2:33PM
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wils.
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 48
my friend has a pvgs500 and the quality is almost as good as my friends gl2 its just the gl2 looks Cooler
Jul 20 2007 2:50PM
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wils.
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 48
but the gs500 cost 1200 but the gl2 cost 2200$ cause its cooler and a little better
Jul 20 2007 2:52PM
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Lineskiah11
Posts: 2029 - Karma: 21
i think im going to end up going with the gs500 when i get a new cam this fall. seems like a good cam for the price and i just cant blow 2 grand on a camera right now
Jul 20 2007 3:19PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
no thats totally right. Thats why Im not even considering the HD switch until Panasonic makes an HVX remodel that can actually do the things it claims it can.

And yeah, video is a preference. HDV is great for the money but I think it gets a lot of hate because people who don't understand cameras claim it like "OMG I SHOOT HD NOW SUCKAS" and people who have knowledge of the format get pissed and it starts a big geek war. (regredibly, we've all been a part of this at times)

And I agree with Philippe, the biggest advantage DVCPRO-HD is the color sampling. Thats possibly the thing I hate the most about miniDV: the inferior color sampling. Its not HORRIBLE, but you can easily tell its no DVCPRO sampling and thats a big factor in what makes their images so amazing.



My conclusion: Consumer HD does not exist yet. Consumer HDV however, does.
Jul 20 2007 4:34PM
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Jeff_Lo
Posts: 5809 - Karma: 263
well said
Jul 20 2007 5:27PM
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