Things I said are indented, and things Brodie said, say Brodie...
Brodie...none are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. says: (12:31:58 PM)
hmmm too early for this but...your perception can be fooled along with your brain
says who? i mean, who is doing the fooling? and who is defining free?
if i believe im free, who is anyone else to tell me im not? the state?
Brodie... well ignorance is bliss
if so, belief = reality
Brodie... well your reality can be twisted,,,for example putting a sstick in water. the stick looks bent although we know it is not, the light is bein bent
im not saying we are free or not...just an hypothetical example of what can happen
well, then the laws of physics define our reality, so being bound by only those equates to freedom. being bound by something other that the laws of physics is false freedom, which is any social interaction, so any social creature ceases to be free
in that sense of the word
Brodie... mathematics is the only true freedom we can be sure off
but if i adopt that ignorance is bliss, and the stick bends when i put it in water, i create my own freedom by creating my own boundaries of reality
Brodie... other than that we can question anything
so if i believe i am free, i become free.
Brodie... i think, therefore i am
mathematics isnt freedom, it is the walls of our reality. nothing extends beyond
youre just full of little quips arent you
Brodie... just summarizing what you're saying,,mathematics cannot be questioned whether it is right or wrong,,other than that there is no answer to right or wrong
this is the essence of my point "but if i adopt that ignorance is bliss, and the stick bends when i put it in water, i create my own freedom by creating my own boundaries of reality"
Brodie... brb i need my morning glory
well, without a governing body of what is right and wrong, we only have our own minds to tell us, our feelings. luckily humans noticed that peoples feelings were unpredictable and possibly dangerous to themselves, so as a defence mechanism, we created a social system with common accepted definitions of right and wrong, therefore building a system we can believe in, besides mathematics,
as social creatures require.
Brodie... cogito ergo sum
Brodie... if thats true then humans are naturally evil and deserved to be govern because we cannot do it ourselves
not true, we cant tell if someone else is evil or not, or is going to harm us, so we need protection against the unknown
Brodie... i agree with what your saying about humans have the free will to choose to be good or not, however you cannot tell because your perception is never valid
Brodie... we need protectioin from ourselves?
what do you mean not valid? from whose perspective? mahts?
protection from other living things, not ourselves
Brodie... welll we can never guarantee 100% what we are seeing/doing to be good or evil, we cannot know, do u agree?
good? bad? who knows
good luck? bad luck? whjo knows?
theres a story of a farmers son, one day in the fields he broke his leg. he couldnt work, and the farmer said, oh what bad luck!. the next month there was a war, and his son couldnt go because of his bad leg, and the farmer said what good luck!,
Brodie... im saying in the future its a possibility to humans to think thehy are free when they really are not,,im refering to this material world, nothing beyond that
Brodie... thats all mymsn name means
Brodie... now if we want to dive deeper..
well, im not shooting it down, im just trying to show you that that idea comes from a perspective. whose perspective? well, Mathematic's perspective, right?
Math is saying "YOU CANT BE FREE WITHIN MY WALLS ONLY I CAN DEFINE FREEDOM"
Brodie... no no mathematics has nothing to do with my msn name,,,im saying the government can fuck around and we believe we have the freedom to choose however we may not necessarily do
and as living creatures, we have the gift (i think of it as a goft) of being able to escape the laws of math, given anything alive has the same gift.
AHHHH, the States perspective
Brodie... its not questioining whether we are free from our choices and heaven and hell
but they are a social entity and yes, they can choose to control our material freedoms
Brodie... and we may never ever know
no, i wasnt on the religion and choices end of it yet
Brodie... im jus tsaying it would be a good illusion if the government could have the power to do that, andwhos to say they havent already?
Brodie... its irony i think haha
Just imagine Math. As a big dude , and in front of him is a box. the box is his Perfect creation, Perfect math. Life, inside his box represents the chaos factor, our choices and actions are unpredictable to Math, and therefore anything alive is free from maths laws. But that then raises the question "Are our choices and actions the result of a mathematic equation?" .. there still isnt an answer to that
they talk about it in waking life
id like to think i can influence my decisions randomly
without math knowing i was going to
because math is the same concept as god
is math going to punish us for being unpredictable?
turn me into Pi?
Pi is an appropriate definiton of hell, isnt it? or is Pi, the never repeating #, representative of life and Life's randomness
if so, Life is Hell.
hold up let me scroll up
u can also think we are in hell right now, the never ending struggle good vs evil,,,there are no winners, one big loop, eternal
im jus tsaying it would be a good illusion if the government could have the power to do that, andwhos to say they havent already?" - sure, we like to think we know what the gov't is up to, but i don't. according to TLC, we are 50 years ahead of what the states tells us
Right the concept of hell - there are no winners, eternal. Pi- Never repeating, never ending.
it doesnt seen like MATH to have a number that follows no rules.
thats where my idea of Pi=Life=Hell
whats 22 divided by 7?
if pi is hell because its random..whats a number that isnt random but carries over into infinity
Brodie... or is it the same?
Pi could also just be Maths concept of Life, or it could be its concept of change, which requires Time, and if Math takes time into account, it becomes a product of the randomness, and becomes acutely aware of its own existence
Well, mayeb a number that is infinite is a failsafe mechanism for math to fall back on to block chaos.
Brodie... math is just the universal language, it cannot be judged, u cannot disagree with it, its a form of law that cannot be questiond and whether thats a good thing or not it exists and nobdy can denyit
imagine a mini-you in a sea of math, swinging your randomness sword, and breaking equations. but you swing into a number that just keeps splitting the same.
what do you mean no one can deny it? I can say that I am not a product of solely chemical reactions between predetermined amounts of matter
Brodie... could be hell
life is special, and thats our best proof of a spiritual god
Brodie... that was for your previous point
the sword deal
could be hell indeed
better stick to Pi
Maybe Pi is our god
Brodie... if my purpose was to be random and i came across something where random did not exist well thqt could be hell
Brodie... it would crush my world
and we shouldnt stray too far off its path, or well end up in hell, probably because we did something stupid liuke divide 22 by 7.
random doesnt mean impulsive either, it doesnt mean we dont have to think first. We are random by nature, our entire body is random. sure we follow rules millions of years of life evolution, but thats fine, it doesnt stop our bodies from randomizing. we just have to hope that we done randomize into cancer or something, which is ridiculous, because if we didnt randomize, we would never die. Death is the proof of chaotic order and randomization. I would say that since we die, it proves we dont follow set laws of the universe,
Brodie... everything dies thou, everything is in a state of decay
and therefore are free to make our own choices, and fate doesnt rule us
Not 0's and 1's.
not numbers, and the rules behing those #'s
H2O will always split into 2 atoms of hydrogen, and one atom of oxygen
all of the chemical reactionlaws are not in decay
only life is in decay
as a resuly of its random nature
well, since the sun is not alive, its decay is not decay, it is change, following rules.
change isnt decay, decay only exists with death
the sun will burn out and we will die
Brodie... assumin we dont kill ourselves first
a building decays, only because a building was creadted and is destroyed by elements of life, so the building now has (for life) a useful concept of death. since the building will die when we decide it is so, it now can decay.
well the earth is decayin slowly but it is,,,lots of energy leaves our atmosphere and never returns
you seem so sure the sun will burn out and we will die. that is billions of years in the future.
it happened bfore who's to say it wont happen again
the earth doesnt die, though. thats what im trying to get at. Things cant decay if they dont die. Things that arent alive, cant decay
Things that arent alive follow the rules
follow all the rules of math and physics, chemistry and all.
Life may not follow these rules
and death is the proof
Brodie... nope its not true,,,law of conservation, we can only create what has alaready been created, and we are constantly getting pounded down and ground out to nothingness
dude i learned all that in school too
Life doesnt create out of nothingness
Brodie... then u know that we are in decline and just keep going further down the spectrum to nonthing
but the fact that life dies is an imperfection in the universe, a flaw in the rules.
its the 2nd law of thermal dynamics,,,everything is in a state of decay
no, change. I only draw distinction between decay and change for the simple fact that things not alive all decay exactly the same
so they change.
decay indicates loss of function. the only reason we say the sun is decaying, or an atom is decaying, is because it is changing so we cant use it forever.
theresa loss of energy that is leaving our sollar system
YES, there is a loss of energy
Brodie... sooner or later there will be nothing but a dead chunk of ice
AH-HAA! key word DEAD
you proved my point
Brodie... go on
so, the fact that things die, means that things decay. If nothing died (like on the sun, where nothing is alive and nothing is dead) there can be no decay, only the result of a chemical and mathematical formula equation. thats why we can predict the burning out of the sun, because it follows the laws of the universe. The Point: The fact that we die, means we don't follow all the rules of the universe
which indicates free will, which leaves fate and religion to sit out in the sun by themselves, until we come along and accept religion and/or fate, just because the only other option is to believe in Pi, which is hella boring, except to those math geeks.
Brodie... to each their own
Brodie... i still believe everyhting is decaying
Brodie... i need some breakfast, and im gonna take a look for my old philosophy binder, it has many good points i should look over
damn your little quotes, i'ver heard them all before, so i know what is coming from your head, and what youve adopted from others. The best thing you've said this conversations was that "if my purpose was to be random, and i ended up somewhere eternally the same, it would crush my world" . here, how about this one. If everything is decaying, why is the universe getting bigger?
Brodie... prove it mon frere
i cant, but stephen hawkins has.
Brodie... im saying its in a state of decay which may be very slow
its just changing into elements again. There isnt a net loss of energy in the universe, thats impossible
once the elements are isolated, they join up again into a new cycle
Brodie... well ponder this,,,if there was a purpose for us being here then we would have a quest to complete or something along thos elines,,,so why have we not completed it by now
cause Pi is a really long #. lol
is there a purpose to randomness?
i haven't even touched on religion and a purpose of life
Brodie... i dont appreciate you denying my scripture of having a lack in wealth of knowledge
Brodie... maybe your feeble mind cannot comprehend
Im trying to think about it in the simpleset form, as life, and everything with it, as a number. because everything is math. and If life was a # it would be one that never repeats or ends. well, it hasnt ended yet.
Brodie... you're the one whos repeating himself
im sorry, its just youre using one liners which most of the time are barely applicable to the context of the discussion.
Brodie... "everything that has a begining has an end"
Brodie... hows that for one liners
Brodie... u woke me up and i havent eaten anything
Brodie... we'll continue this another time
they are all potential truths, but only because they cant be proven or disproven.
sure, sorry bout waking you up
Intent vs result, another classic arguement
Brodie... u didnt, i left this damn computer on next to my head
Brodie... next time i'll offer more to the conversation then 1 liners
Brodie... but alas i must eat
or else i will decay
now i hope you know, ive never put these thoughts together before, im freestyling, and it feels good, i just wanted you to freestyle with me, not offer philosophical quotes that do nothing towards the advancement of the idea at hand. i wasnt attacking your wealth of knowledge, i just wanted to tap into it. eat up
i was using some background knowledge to fruther thediscussion
fair enough, but its hard to do
Brodie... haha its all good man, go watch some soccer, best game in the world is gonna be played in 30mins
its a pretty original idea, or at least string of ideas thought all at once. its hard to use background
i dont have tv
Brodie... doh well then dont watch it
Brodie... this isnt over