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Really good article...

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Mr.Bishop
Posts: 22671 - Karma: 75,830
http://www.twsbiz.com/twbiz/features/article/0,21214,1081130,00.html

This is a transcript of a speech at a Transworld business meeting in 1997.

Read it... this guy has some really interesting things to say.





The OC sold out emo.

Aug 5 2005 11:14AM
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Jib_This
Posts: 8272 - Karma: 9
It's actually good. No one here will read it, but it's good.





The internet is for slandering others anonymously.
Aug 5 2005 11:31AM
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awsomecoolguy
Posts: 3536 - Karma: 13
i dont get it


Aug 5 2005 11:47AM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
hey, hes right. snowboarding isnt cool anymore. skiings five years behind and now we are the Xtreme sport that McDonalds wants to rape. it comes it goes. look at the difference in skateboarding 8 years ago. its still being raped a bit, but its moved to snowboarding. its still on snowboarding but its fading off. 3 years and newschool skiing will be in their spot.

what was that american express commercial? i never saw it

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The re's business Schmuck
and there's rockstar Schmuck'
'the graphics should be completely flat black on his pro model... that would be intense.' -Jc_Dunn
LORD OF THE PARK 2006.....
Aug 5 2005 11:55AM
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UTskier
Posts: 743 - Karma: 158
I read it. It was a good read. Thank god skiing isn't in that kind of corporate spotlight anymore.

Aug 5 2005 11:55AM
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twintipteles
Posts: 2954 - Karma: 13
that was frighteningly logical, but to some extent the happy ending part isn't that bad, and its the best we can reasonably wish for

--------------------------------
random fact: my kitty is chasssing the lletteres as I type them./,.,.,.,.,.,,weeeeeeeeeeee eeeee can't catch this, BITCH -SteezePatrol

www.Freeheellife.com
Aug 5 2005 11:59AM
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GrippinGs
Posts: 4960 - Karma: 196
but was skiing ever in that kind of spot light?


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great graphic!!! this will be good damn fucking movie!! - tomekk
Aug 5 2005 12:20PM
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$westside$
Posts: 2934 - Karma: 18
^yes, skiing used to be much bigger than it is now. (regular skiing)...thats why im glad newschooling isnt on 54321 or any of those extreme sports shows...i personaly like being the size we r and still being able to be somewhat "underground"...makes the sport and the athelets more accesable...if u go up to a pro skier, they will be cool and talk to u. if u go up to a pro skateboarder, u will be lucky to get their autorgraph before they hop into their strech hummer

_______________~Angus West______

Liberty***
SMP

Aug 5 2005 1:03PM
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$westside$
Posts: 2934 - Karma: 18
ex: Bam Margera

_______________~Angus West______

Liberty***
SMP

Aug 5 2005 1:04PM
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Maximumsushi
Posts: 7837 - Karma: 3,347
No
There are only a handful of skate pros who have it "made". The industry is so huge with a ton of small indy companies and even more "pros" that everyone is down to earth just like any other extreme sport. If you go to a skate demo, of course these guys get mobbed.

___________________________________
Some people are trying to snowboard here!
Oh I get it. Sorry to ruin your day.
Aug 5 2005 1:12PM
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creighton
Posts: 3836 - Karma: 3,386
its too long..i gave up

cool everybody
Aug 5 2005 1:20PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I get what Angus is trying to say, but I disagree on the whole hummer part. it's harder to get money in skateboaring cause the industry is so big, you are just a small person out of millions who do it. so either you don't get much money at all, or you end up like fuckin Kosten and have a nice house in LA and shit.
I like skiing to be small, cause it makes me different from most of those 7th grade punks who go snowboaring just cause it's the cool thing to do. fuck dat, I do what I want.

because I like poop.
Aug 5 2005 1:25PM
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kendrick
Posts: 787 - Karma: 25
Thanks, Mr. Bishop.

Man, skiing is fun and I can't wait to do it again!

Aug 5 2005 1:26PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I've been skiing my whole life, and a stupid popular fad isn't gonna make me forget my passion.

because I like poop.
Aug 5 2005 1:26PM
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Saba
Posts: 551 - Karma: 13
I dont think thats the best we can hope for at all

Aug 5 2005 1:27PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
be quiet^ you THING.

because I like poop.
Aug 5 2005 1:30PM
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CorkWormTurn
Posts: 1724 - Karma: 12
kind of interesting, but it makes me question why it matters at all?

i mean, basketball has changed image many times. as has skateboarding. But both basketball players and skateboarders still do what they like to do regardless of how their sport is viewed.

If skiing was as big as skateboarding, how would it affect you positively, or negatively? I'd still be out in the park in the cold trying to learn new tricks.

To be honest, about the only thing I could give two shits about is that I wish "extreme"/"alternative" sports in general would get the recognition they deserve. I quit baseball when I was 13 because there were like 4 or 5 coaches on the team, and their sons all happened to be the pitchers. The whole thing was a pain in the ass, there were favorites, and it stopped being fun. In skateboarding, snowboarding, skiing, whatever - you are as good as you make yourself, and the only pressure to get better comes from yourself.

Yet people are still obsessed with someone who catches a football and wants to make $100 million dollars a year, and now is currently taking off from training because his groin hurts a little. Yet you have people like Candide and JP Auclair and tons of others who get hurt pushing themselves and their sport to the limit, doing amazing things, and quietly working to come back - yet no one gives a shit.

I guess my point is that I don't care if skiing or snowboarding is used to sell mountain dew or not - what I do wish is that people's perspectives on sports would change in general. Alternative sports could provide a much more stress free, positive influence on people, not the negative, competitive stressful, materialistic environment that is mainstream sports.

Aug 5 2005 1:52PM
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neonpink
Posts: 336 - Karma: 11
interesting article.. i think a lot of people feel cool being a skier because they are not conforming to the perceived "coolness factor" of snowboarding but in reality they are doing the exact same thing snowboarders did before them--trying to go against convention. It's a cyclic process of changing perceptions about the sports.

Aug 5 2005 2:44PM
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lanks
Posts: 12543 - Karma: 72
very accurate portrayal of whats about to happen in skiing, i'll put it that way. and to think it was written 8 years ago...the author knew exactly what was going on.


-Joel

~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~
Capital City Rider, DFP
Silent Army

'Everybody calls me a zero. But I'm an internet hero.'
Aug 5 2005 2:54PM
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trevorwoulddoit
Posts: 6153 - Karma: 199
Great article, well worth reading. Perhaps it will encourage the growing numbers of people I hear touting the "more exposure = more money for our sport and vice versa" dogma to think about what they're actually saying and the possible results.

Now fast, somebody connect the dots and tie this into Quiksilver's covert machinations of late.



My heroes don't appear on no stamps.

Our greatest glory consists not in never falling. But in rising every time we fall.

The Lab
Aug 5 2005 3:26PM
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lanks
Posts: 12543 - Karma: 72
...i think anthony bacon should read this article...


-Joel

~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~
Capital City Rider, DFP
Silent Army

'Everybody calls me a zero. But I'm an internet hero.'
Aug 5 2005 3:32PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
{insert witty intelligent comment regarding quicksilver to be cool like the dave]

so basically its all JP and JF fault for slutting out our skiing?

-------------------------------------
The re's business Schmuck
and there's rockstar Schmuck'
'the graphics should be completely flat black on his pro model... that would be intense.' -Jc_Dunn
LORD OF THE PARK 2006.....
Aug 5 2005 3:37PM
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lanks
Posts: 12543 - Karma: 72
uhh, not at all...what gives you that idea?


-Joel

~Phunkin Phatt Phreerider~
Capital City Rider, DFP
Silent Army

'Everybody calls me a zero. But I'm an internet hero.'
Aug 5 2005 3:47PM
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freeskier1316
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 27
I'm not going to lie i didn't understand half of what the article was talking about. Correct me if i'm wrong though all it was basically talking about was how advertising changes from "hip" trend to "hip" trend. And that corporate america uses the "hip" trend to sell there stuff while the actual sport itself does not reap the benifits accept that it becomes more well known. Thats all i got and i've read all of the comments but i think that i missed something so if i did could you please tell me.


'kevin whyed nils pull you out?' 'Cuz i was touchin bitches.' 'No seriously why did he put scott in for you.' 'Scott doesn't touch bitches.'

Viva Candide
Aug 5 2005 4:47PM
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freeskier1316
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 27
interesting and well written even if i didn't understand some of it


'kevin whyed nils pull you out?' 'Cuz i was touchin bitches.' 'No seriously why did he put scott in for you.' 'Scott doesn't touch bitches.'

Viva Candide
Aug 5 2005 4:48PM
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doitbig
Posts: 4818 - Karma: 315
we're next...

Aug 5 2005 4:52PM
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zmanalex
Posts: 452 - Karma: 10
^Personally, i dont think were next, i think its starting now. Like someone said earlyer look at what Quicksilver is doing now. In a way though, having Ski racing may infact help slow this process, or the image of skiers being uptight rich yuppies may as well help slow the "coorperate raping of the sport".

"im tellin' ya man, it's the best thing since backstreet boys"- Twix_182
Aug 5 2005 5:29PM
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GrippinGs
Posts: 4960 - Karma: 196
luckily skiing isnt the hip thing for young execs to do.

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great graphic!!! this will be good damn fucking movie!! - tomekk
Aug 5 2005 5:44PM
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dweezileast
Posts: 9661 - Karma: 276
^that will change. that was a really profound article, case point, my friends dad fits that mold of the rebelling business man perfectly. a lot of kids dont really realize that snowboarding didnt start out right off the bat with people talking shit, and saying they can do all the tricks that you do, and frankly, i know of no snowboarders who do any of that, theyre a lot of fun to ride with, and you influence eachothers style. and what corkwormturn said, was profound as well

jack.


so JF, are you still drinking?
no......why..........are you buying?
Aug 5 2005 7:16PM
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minty
Posts: 317 - Karma: 11
such a good article. newschool skiing isnt beginning this phase I think its almost over already. the whole "selling out thing" really got me because yeah what is it selling out of? and we all say "we ski because its so much better then snowboarding, it's so individual, yadi yadi yada" we got owned! Compare this to the world in general....crazy shit.

Aug 5 2005 7:50PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
its about to be...

DFSC-Reprsent

NUFF SAID
Aug 5 2005 8:20PM
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thomas_skier
Posts: 231 - Karma: 10
how many people praising this article also praised the lilhorsy "sell out or die" post? Now do you see what happens when a kid in Nebraska wants to buy a ski-brand t-shirt (to use the pony's example of what SHOULD be happenng).
that article was decent, but it acted like this was all a revelation . . . Marx didn't a better job describing hypercapitalism in the 19th century (before it developed to that point). if you really want to understand what the article is about, read Sign Wars by Robert Goldman (or google Marx's theory of crisis and contradiction).
Capitalist systems are like sharks . . . they can't stop moving or they sink and die. Capitalism needs to continually move into unchartered territory. While this used to mean new markets, in the age of advertising, it means commodifying novel forms of cultural expression.
To commodify snowboarding, for example, you don't have to sell snowboard goods. All you have to do is attach the meaning of the sport to your brand name. Example: Danny Kass Nestea ad.
The problem is that snowboarding gets represented on the corporations terms. Say goodbye to your sport! Luckily, skiing will probably never get pinned with the goatee and the phrase "dude." Unless big mountain gets commodified first.

Aug 6 2005 11:36AM
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DaveHumphrey
Posts: 1758 - Karma: 82
personaly i think that there are alot more ski bladers around. and that sport is picking up alot. hopefully that will have its monsterous fame before newschool skiing does. because right now newschool skiing is awsome because its origional right now. like at my hill i go to theres like 3 people. and there all good buddys. but when you see the snowboarders there all trashing skiing and even eachother saying there better and shit. so snowboarding becomeing famous is turning some of them against eachother. hopefully this will never happen to newschoolers.




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the invaders are the oppisite of my penis. the invaders are realy soft and cant be larger than 178 cm.
Aug 6 2005 11:52AM
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SSteezle
Posts: 9221 - Karma: 9,939
same

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DROP CLIFFS NOT BOMBS

RFCproductions
Aug 6 2005 12:11PM
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pag
Posts: 3412 - Karma: 69
great articles I'm pretty sure we're the next
just look at this article on the front page roxy skis damn never tought that it would happen... I'm kinda happy cause it's good for developpement of the sport but after reading this you're not 100% sure that you want your sport go grow that much

rock yo shit *NS Skateboarders Cult*
Aug 6 2005 12:14PM
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pierceme
Posts: 1483 - Karma: 11
I really hope our sport doesnt blow up like everything else. Just cuz i enjoy the fact that i can go around and if i happen to run into a kid in like a line hat or something newschool related, i can approach them and be like, "u ski? no way me too. " And the kid will actually be interested enough to talk back to me. If i had to walk up to every snowboarder, well that would just be way to much work, and they'd just be like "so what". I like where our sports at right now, big enough but not too big. The only time i ever get the feeling that its getting too big is right around x games time. Other than that its good.





I ski at the crappiest hill ever...
Aug 6 2005 12:59PM
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Craigskis
Posts: 6648 - Karma: 1,636
We not all going to go out and buy a saab or an audi...

live by the N.E.R.D
Aug 6 2005 1:04PM
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freeskier1316
Posts: 1771 - Karma: 27
before any one says we're the next big thing don't forget that Adidas sold Salomon to and a big company didn't pick it up ie. Nike


'kevin whyed nils pull you out?' 'Cuz i was touchin bitches.' 'No seriously why did he put scott in for you.' 'Scott doesn't touch bitches.'

Viva Candide
Aug 6 2005 1:29PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5953 - Karma: 3,450
lanks, i was being sarcastic to the dave. dogma got jp and jf. they wanted to do what they loved for a living. now its on its way to being the next snowboarding. i dont really believe that though

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The re's business Schmuck
and there's rockstar Schmuck'
'the graphics should be completely flat black on his pro model... that would be intense.' -Jc_Dunn
LORD OF THE PARK 2006.....
Aug 6 2005 2:03PM
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Pklink04
Posts: 5608 - Karma: 392
I coundnt care less about what people think about skiing, the fact is that I like it and im gunna do it as long as i can



You know you have the coolest cab driver when he says, 'And we're off like a prom dress.'
Aug 6 2005 2:41PM
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freestyle_rich
Posts: 1854 - Karma: 10
people already trash talk eachother on newschoolers! Newschool skiing is already becoming popular much faster than snowboarding is. Think about how many kids watch the Xgames and see Tanner Hall, Jon Olson etc rip it up and want to be just like them. Over the next few years there is going to be a big increase in newschool skiiers who are going to be saying "fuck snowboarding, skiing is where it's at!" I just hope that we can all chill out and give people respect (especially beginners) instead of hate.





No Props!
Aug 6 2005 8:32PM
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pinner-
Posts: 1398 - Karma: 74
that took me a long time to read..wow

mikeHENITIUK

"we started it, haters"- Salomon
Aug 6 2005 9:45PM
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Typical
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 83
i ski cause i love skiing. All pro skiers ski cause they love skiing. There are football and basketball players that play for the money. I think that is why people are scared. They are afraid that people will participate in the sport for reasons other than true enjoyment. I have not seen that at the Pro level in Snowboarding, Skateboarding or BMXing. I think it is hard to go Pro in 'X-sports' without absolutely loving them since they are so individual.

Aug 6 2005 10:38PM
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Typical
Posts: 2269 - Karma: 83
but if the better core of the sport participates cause they are having fun then marketing really shouldn't matter. If anything more money=more opportunity. Danny Way jumping the wall of China??? that was cool. Right?

Aug 6 2005 10:44PM
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harlemcracka
Posts: 274 - Karma: 10
this line could only come from someone who is either jealous of others who already have money and are making more by essentially having fun, or angry that mountains are getting more crowded because of successful marketing by big companies. Welcome to capitalist America, the same succesful marketing he hates that homogenized snowboarding and made it accessible to all kinds of people also caused the industry to grow large enough to allow the formation of awesome Indy Companies like Grenade, Armada, Level 1 and Plehouse/D-structure to establish themselves outside of the corporate matrix and be successful. It was very interesting but the writer was anything but objective when he wrote it.

Best quote that proves this point,

"sliding down a mountain isn’t just a thrill for rich guys, it’s a way for rich guys to prove what incredible individualists they are."

sounds like a jaded middle aged man to me

"Do you have any idea what the street value of this mountain is?"
Aug 6 2005 11:52PM
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Condor1472
Posts: 51 - Karma: 10
this is a very good article.


'Proud Member of the NS Praetorian Guard

Viva La Praetorian Bitches'
Aug 7 2005 12:02AM
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r5tommy
Posts: 3608 - Karma: 89
That just reminded me about how glad i am, as to where skiing is right now...its perfect.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
puttin the ummmmm in summer since 95'
Aug 7 2005 12:31AM
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Aerozol
Posts: 1124 - Karma: 488
i gave up too.

If I had more energy, I'd burn that young mans face
Aug 7 2005 3:15AM
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shea.
Posts: 1606 - Karma: 193
thats the same for me, i dont care what happens, i will always ski

if it were easier it would be called snowboarding

i like the sticker that says " Ya mum rides a Snowboard"
Aug 7 2005 3:19AM
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nothanks
Posts: 13551 - Karma: 31
True man, and reading that I knew someone had to drop a Quiksilver/Rossi/Adidas reference.

I actually just got the time to sit down and read that, wow, couldn't be more truer, just I can't even sum it up. It's just how the market goes, so please stop pushing for more exposure and money and glory for freeskiing, you have it typed out for you.



Stay Classy Newschoolers
Aug 7 2005 5:53AM
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